If pot should be banned.. so should alcohol.

[WichitaJohn]

I posted the following letter to pastor Bob Enyart in the BEL forum but did not get any responses that satisfied me. I have also emailed pastor Bob and sent a message through facebook but got no response. I even called his show only to get Doug McBurney who was filling in. Unfortunately because of my bad cell connection we were unable to converse for very long. Since legalizing pot is a current political topic I thought I would try here.

Dear Pastor Bob,
I would like to lay out the reasons I disagree with your stance against legalizing pot. Most of my disagreements stem from the false distinctions you make between pot and alcohol. In order to save time I will keep this brief.

1. Your statement concerning how pot is only used to get high is silly. Just as one can drink alcohol and feel the affects but not be drunk one can also use pot feel the affects and not be high. In fact, I have smoked pot before and felt nothing. If you do not have a problem with someone drinking wine to relax and help them fall asleep you should not have a problem with someone using pot for the same reason. If someone walks into a liquor store and buys a pint of 100 proof vodka I think it is safe to conclude that they intend to get drunk. Should we prohibit such beverages?

2. You have spent a good deal of time pointing out the negative health effects of pot. But most of the studies you site deal with people who have frequent and prolonged use. If you apply these same standards and look at the negative effects of frequent and prolonged alcohol consumption you would net similar results. (Including brain damage.)

3. What is the purpose of highlighting any pot related crime? Why don't you do this with alcohol related crime? Also, I am sure you would agree that if someone commits a crime while high, drunk, or sober they should be punished equally. Do you believe banning pot would be a good strategy to lower crime rates? I have hear you teach that laws should not be designed to make it so that people CAN'T commit crimes but instead they should be designed so that people WON'T commit crimes.

4. You have been warning people of the dangers of legalism for years but you are being legalistic on this matter. God said "Don't get high". You are saying "don't partake or even touch."

5. When you point out the stigma society has concerning pot users/potheads you ignore the stigma some people have concerning those who drink alcohol. A lot of the stigma about pot is a result of it being illegal. I am sure the stigma against alcohol was much greater during prohibition. Also, in today's society, bible believers like us are seen as ignorant buffoons. Would this be a good justification for banning Bibles? Prohibition laws should not depend on the stereotypes of a society.

Liberals have lots of reasons why they think pot should be legal. Their reasons are mostly stupid. The war on drugs has been futile so far. But even if we were able to get a strangle hold on the drug supply I am sure people would, because they already do, synthesis other drugs. We would be tilting at windmills.

 

[Eeset]

Follow the money trail. It will lead you to the prison/industrial complex. There are huge political contributions being made to keep pot illegal because doing so keeps the private prison industry profitable.

 

[StanJ]

The issue here is one of social morality vs religious morality, and the two shall never meet.

The WORLD (Biblical sense) uses it's own sense of morality to enact social laws. They are not always equal or rational as in this case.
Personally I see no difference in drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana for secular people. Some people should de neither and some can do either.
I smoked pot and drank when I was much younger and a delinquent. The two resulted in pretty much a stupor. No difference as far as I was concerned.
Today, pot is very useful for medical issues as well as being used recreational, and contrary to all governments that say so, it is NOT a gateway drug, any more than drinking beer leads you to abuse alcohol in all it's myriad forms.
About the only thing I do rarely is drink a nice glass of red wine, but that's it. My body and my experience tells me that's all I can do and anything more results in a bad headache or nausea.
I agree that if pot is being banned, alcohol should as well, but sadly our governments loves the sin tax income so they won't, and more and more local governments are seeking to grow income on regulating pot in their local jurisdictions as recently evidenced by laws in Colorado and BC.

 

[keypurr]

It would OK with me if they banned both Pot and Booz.

But folks have a right to enjoy within reason.

I considered Pot for pain but that only substituted one drug for another. I have seen families destroyed by booze and drugs. I think the world would be just fine without them.

 

[shagster01]

Anti pot people blow more smoke than smokers.

 

[bybee]

It would OK with me if they banned both Pot and Booz.

But folks have a right to enjoy within reason.

I considered Pot for pain but that only substituted one drug for another. I have seen families destroyed by booze and drugs. I think the world would be just fine without them.

So true!

 

[HisServant]

The problem when most people talk about pot these days is the fact that they are thinking of Pot in the 60's and early 70's. The pot available today has been so hybridized that its 10X stronger than it was back then. So you need to frame Pot within todays reality.

Then there is the problem with second hand pot smoke, which you do not have with alcohol. My brain has a severe reaction to Pot... last time I ended up with a migraine for 3 days and couldn't even keep water down and ended up in the hospital.

Pot smoking in public (along with cigarette smoking in public) should be illegal.

 

[MarcATL]

I posted the following letter to pastor Bob Enyart in the BEL forum but did not get any responses that satisfied me. I have also emailed pastor Bob and sent a message through facebook but got no response. I even called his show only to get Doug McBurney who was filling in. Unfortunately because of my bad cell connection we were unable to converse for very long. Since legalizing pot is a current political topic I thought I would try here.

Dear Pastor Bob,
I would like to lay out the reasons I disagree with your stance against legalizing pot. Most of my disagreements stem from the false distinctions you make between pot and alcohol. In order to save time I will keep this brief.

1. Your statement concerning how pot is only used to get high is silly. Just as one can drink alcohol and feel the affects but not be drunk one can also use pot feel the affects and not be high. In fact, I have smoked pot before and felt nothing. If you do not have a problem with someone drinking wine to relax and help them fall asleep you should not have a problem with someone using pot for the same reason. If someone walks into a liquor store and buys a pint of 100 proof vodka I think it is safe to conclude that they intend to get drunk. Should we prohibit such beverages?

2. You have spent a good deal of time pointing out the negative health effects of pot. But most of the studies you site deal with people who have frequent and prolonged use. If you apply these same standards and look at the negative effects of frequent and prolonged alcohol consumption you would net similar results. (Including brain damage.)

3. What is the purpose of highlighting any pot related crime? Why don't you do this with alcohol related crime? Also, I am sure you would agree that if someone commits a crime while high, drunk, or sober they should be punished equally. Do you believe banning pot would be a good strategy to lower crime rates? I have hear you teach that laws should not be designed to make it so that people CAN'T commit crimes but instead they should be designed so that people WON'T commit crimes.

4. You have been warning people of the dangers of legalism for years but you are being legalistic on this matter. God said "Don't get high". You are saying "don't partake or even touch."

5. When you point out the stigma society has concerning pot users/potheads you ignore the stigma some people have concerning those who drink alcohol. A lot of the stigma about pot is a result of it being illegal. I am sure the stigma against alcohol was much greater during prohibition. Also, in today's society, bible believers like us are seen as ignorant buffoons. Would this be a good justification for banning Bibles? Prohibition laws should not depend on the stereotypes of a society.

Liberals have lots of reasons why they think pot should be legal. Their reasons are mostly stupid. The war on drugs has been futile so far. But even if we were able to get a strangle hold on the drug supply I am sure people would, because they already do, synthesis other drugs. We would be tilting at windmills.

Actually, I think that alcohol is worse than pot. It certainly causes hundreds of times more death. It's THEE gateway drug to boot.

However, individuals should be able to do what they want in private. Lastly, the liberal argument for pot is just different (sometimes) than the conservative argument for pot. They're both valid.

 

[TomO]

It's THEE gateway drug to boot.

:chuckle: I was told once that alcohol can't be a "gateway" drug because it's legal. My response was; Okay, then if we legalize pot then it won't be a "gateway" drug either. She just looked at me with a blank stare (I think I overloaded her synapses).

 

[User Name]

I considered Pot for pain but that only substituted one drug for another.

Marijuana is different from pharmaceuticals in that it is virtually non-toxic and only mildly addictive, if addictive at all. Many pharmaceuticals are toxic and very damaging to the liver and/or other organs. Some are quite addictive. Pot is not, or at least, much less so.

I have seen families destroyed by booze and drugs. I think the world would be just fine without them.

There is misuse, and then there is proper use. The world needs them in their proper use.

 

[Rusha]

Actually, I think that alcohol is worse than pot. It certainly causes hundreds of times more death. It's THEE gateway drug to boot.

However, individuals should be able to do what they want in private. Lastly, the liberal argument for pot is just different (sometimes) than the conservative argument for pot. They're both valid.

^ This.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Here are 3 good articles by Bob Enyart explaining why marijuana should be illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-enyart/why-marijuana-should-be-i_b_1340311.html

what the Bible says about Pot

http://kgov.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-pot-marijuana-should-it-be-illegal

and the negative effects of marijuana

http://kgov.com/negative-effects-of-marijuana-pot-researchers-shows-cannabis-is-harmful

Of course these articles are for people with open minds, because as I see daily with the drug addicts that I deal with, and it's been shown time and time again in the dope threads here on TOL...

Dopers love dope more than life itself.

 

[chrysostom]

I wouldn't ban either one of them

haven't seen any of their posts

 

[bybee]

I wouldn't ban either one of them

haven't seen any of their posts

I'm in favor of less government intervention. Along with freedom of choice ought to come education on possible benefits and side effects.

 

[User Name]

Dopers love dope more than life itself.

Alcoholics love alcohol more than life itself.

Anything that can be said as an argument against marijuana can be said in spades as an argument against alcohol consumption in all its forms (e.g. beer, wine, liquor).

 

[HisServant]

^ This.

That is an invalid comparison because it doesn't take the number of users into account.

There are more alcohol drinkers therefore there are more accidents.

Even if it legal, your employer can test you for it and fire you, just as if you came into work drunk. The problem with Pot is it stays in your system a long time, so its pretty much guaranteed to make you lose your job if they test for it.

So then you can be an unemployed or underemployed stoner.

 

[The Horn]

Alcohol is known to be more than 100 times more dangerous than marijuana . How many people have died from using excessive marijuana ? Zero . There are some risks in using pot, but they pale in comparison to those of alcohol .
How many people have been murdered by those under the influence of pot ? NONE . But alcoholic intoxication is a major factor in many
murders .
More people are killed by drunk drivers in one day than have been killed by those under the influence of pot in history .
Any cop will tell you how often he sees murders committed by people who are drunk . Not one will claim to have seen a murder committed by a pot user .

 

[HisServant]

Alcohol is known to be more than 100 times more dangerous than marijuana . How many people have died from using excessive marijuana ? Zero . There are some risks in using pot, but they pale in comparison to those of alcohol .
How many people have been murdered by those under the influence of pot ? NONE . But alcoholic intoxication is a major factor in many
murders .
More people are killed by drunk drivers in one day than have been killed by those under the influence of pot in history .
Any cop will tell you how often he sees murders committed by people who are drunk . Not one will claim to have seen a murder committed by a pot user .

Back in the early 80's when I worked on an oil rig, the driller was stoned and ended up killing two of my co-workers because he wasn't paying attention and his reaction time was too slow.

And like I said, if there were as many pot users as alcohol users, I have no doubt the numbers would be similar.

 

[Rusha]

That is an invalid comparison because it doesn't take the number of users into account.

There are more alcohol drinkers therefore there are more accidents.

Even if it legal, your employer can test you for it and fire you, just as if you came into work drunk. The problem with Pot is it stays in your system a long time, so its pretty much guaranteed to make you lose your job if they test for it.

So then you can be an unemployed or underemployed stoner.

Which really has nothing to do with which is worse ...

A person can get dead drunk, shoot someone in a blind rage or run them over in their car and within a few days, the alcohol will not show up in their system.

OTOH, if someone smokes a joint, it is almost impossible to flush it from your system before 30 days.

Alcohol and cigarettes are associated with causing death, while
marijuana is not.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#sthash.rLUCZQdV.dpbs

 

[MarcATL]

:chuckle: I was told once that alcohol can't be a "gateway" drug because it's legal. My response was; Okay, then if we legalize pot then it won't be a "gateway" drug either. She just looked at me with a blank stare (I think I overloaded her synapses).

Brother Tom, have you seen Bill O'Reilly's argument on the matter?