If Noah's flood was a legend why should anyone trust Jesus?

Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
It seems that some (maybe even many) Christians have cast doubt on the details of the Noachian Flood. For example:

"...it is hardly conceivable that a simple man like Noah could build an ark of such huge proportions and then gather two of every known living creature – one male and one female – and house them safely within it and feed them and dispose of their waste over a period of 40 days. That’s quite a zoological fete!"
('Do Catholics believe that Noah’s Ark is a factual event?' by Joe Paprocki - http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/do-catholics-believe-that-noahs-ark-is-a-factual-event)

However, Jesus said:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
(Matthew 24:36-41)

Also, Peter said:

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgement and destruction of the ungodly."
(2 Peter 3:3-7)

Paul told the jailer to, 'believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31)

How is a Christian preacher to respond to a sceptic who says they don't believe in Christ because of such an assertion that Jesus was wrong regarding Noah?

What's to trust?
 
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KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
Sonnet said:
It seems that some (maybe even many) Christians have cast doubt on the details of the Noachian Flood. For example:

"...it is hardly conceivable that a simple man like Noah could build an ark of such huge proportions and then gather two of every known living creature – one male and one female – and house them safely within it and feed them and dispose of their waste over a period of 40 days. That’s quite a zoological fete!"
('Do Catholics believe that Noah’s Ark is a factual event?' by Joe Paprocki - http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/do-catholics-believe-that-noahs-ark-is-a-factual-event)

However, Jesus said:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
(Matthew 24:36-41)

Also, Peter said:

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."
(2 Peter 3:3-7)

Paul told the jailer to, 'believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31)

How is a Christian preacher to respond to a sceptic who says they don't believe in Christ because of such an assertion that Jesus was wrong regarding Noah?

What's to trust?
Click to expand...

One thing we know, if we are truly Christian---Jesus never lied. He knew there was a Great Deluge, but he didn't speak about details. Should we really care about the details? Does it matter if it was global or in one area of the globe? It did happen. Who knows....poetic license may have been involved, just like in so many other parts of the Scriptures, and there's more to the story concerning getting all the animals into the ark, but who should care? Some kind of Great Flood happened, and Jesus never lied about it. He didn't even make a parable out of it; he never said anything about it that could be pointed to at as suspect.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
They shouldn't. Christ took the account literally. If the account is false, He was wrong and nothing else He said needs be trusted.

Those like JD and GCT know this. The main reason they're here is because they love sin. Everything they do is an excuse to validate that love.
 
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J

Jonahdog

BANNED
Banned
Stripe said:
If you can't believe the flood and the mountains (literally) of evidence for it, you've likely no chance of believing that a man could return from the dead.
Click to expand...

If you cannot accept the evidence for the old universe and earth and the evidence for evolution you will always be mired in a belief based on the oral myths of nomads.
 
Caino

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Sonnet said:
It seems that some (maybe even many) Christians have cast doubt on the details of the Noachian Flood. For example:

"...it is hardly conceivable that a simple man like Noah could build an ark of such huge proportions and then gather two of every known living creature – one male and one female – and house them safely within it and feed them and dispose of their waste over a period of 40 days. That’s quite a zoological fete!"
('Do Catholics believe that Noah’s Ark is a factual event?' by Joe Paprocki - http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/do-catholics-believe-that-noahs-ark-is-a-factual-event)

However, Jesus said:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
(Matthew 24:36-41)

Also, Peter said:

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgement and destruction of the ungodly."
(2 Peter 3:3-7)

Paul told the jailer to, 'believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31)

How is a Christian preacher to respond to a sceptic who says they don't believe in Christ because of such an assertion that Jesus was wrong regarding Noah?

What's to trust?
Click to expand...

Simple, Jesus was misremembered by Jewish authors of the gospels who naturally saw Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. In recalling his life they saught to legitimize Jesus (to their Jewish brothers) by forcing Jesus into as much of the Torah as they could. But this failed to bring the Jews and only confused subsequent generation of followers.

The Babylonion Hebrew redactors of the older narratives saught to trace their arrogant bloodlines all the way back to Adam whom they wrongly presumed was the first man. Being unable to do so they incorporated a widely known, local flood legend as part of their genealogical accounts. So they drown the whole world in its own wickedness.

You may gasp and wonder how they could do that to scripture? Well, it wasn't "scripture" at the time, it was a pseudo-biographical story written for the child like mind of Bronze Age sheep herders. They made NO claim of writing Gods word. It was only after the return that traditions grew up around the greatly exaggerated, patriotic, nationalist accounts of the Jews past became tradition and subsequently "scripture".

Jesus knew the Hebrew history contained many exaggerations and errors.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
alwight said:
I hope to learn what gopher wood is. :)
Click to expand...

Gopher wood

(Gopher wood is hewn wood)

Gopher wood is hewn wood that can be laminated together to form a type of plywood. Pitch was used to form the bond, and steam was used to (bend or form) the plywood.

Genesis 6:14
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

Gopher
The word (gopher) is used to express the activities of the gopher hewing the ground.

Hew
To chop or cut (something, especially wood) with an ax, pick, or other tool.
 
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CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Sonnet said:
It seems that some (maybe even many) Christians have cast doubt on the details of the Noachian Flood. For example:

"...it is hardly conceivable that a simple man like Noah could build an ark of such huge proportions and then gather two of every known living creature – one male and one female – and house them safely within it and feed them and dispose of their waste over a period of 40 days. That’s quite a zoological fete!"
('Do Catholics believe that Noah’s Ark is a factual event?' by Joe Paprocki - http://bustedhalo.com/questionbox/do-catholics-believe-that-noahs-ark-is-a-factual-event)

However, Jesus said:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
(Matthew 24:36-41)

Also, Peter said:

"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgement and destruction of the ungodly."
(2 Peter 3:3-7)

Paul told the jailer to, 'believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31)

How is a Christian preacher to respond to a sceptic who says they don't believe in Christ because of such an assertion that Jesus was wrong regarding Noah?

What's to trust?
Click to expand...

Noah and his sons built the ark. Not every kind of creature needed to be on the ark. Animal stalls would not need to be cleaned every day. Evidence of the ark has been found. Check Internet.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Sonnet said:
How is a Christian preacher to respond to a sceptic who says they don't believe in Christ because of such an assertion that Jesus was wrong regarding Noah?
Click to expand...
Those Christian preachers just point out that Jesus spoke in parables, and Noah's flood is just a parable from the Bible that Jesus uses for teaching purposes.

Every Christian that believes in a young earth (6,000 to 10,000 years old) believes that God created the heaven and the earth.

Any Christian that believes in an old earth (billions and billions of years old) has a hard time justifying their belief in God.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
KingdomRose said:
One thing we know, if we are truly Christian---Jesus never lied. He knew there was a Great Deluge, but he didn't speak about details. Should we really care about the details? Does it matter if it was global or in one area of the globe?
Click to expand...
Yes, it matters.

If it was only a local flood, then Noah spent 120 years building a boat large enough to house 4 of every kind of animal (two pairs of each, and seven pairs of clean animals) in order to escape a flood everyone could have escaped by floating to the unflooded regions.
 
alwight

alwight

New member
Stripe said:
Because the thread is predicated on the assumption that God is real.

There's only one reasonable explanation for your presence. :troll:
Click to expand...
This thread is actually predicated on Noah's flood being a legend, so you might want to refrain from whinging to the mods for once. :think:
 
J

Jonahdog

BANNED
Banned
Stripe said:
Because the thread is predicated on the assumption that God is real.

There's only one reasonable explanation for your presence. :troll:
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry, I'll leave you to your delusionary thinking.

My presence has to do with my parents and biology.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
Those Christian preachers just point out that Jesus spoke in parables, and Noah's flood is just a parable from the Bible that Jesus uses for teaching purposes.

Every Christian that believes in a young earth (6,000 to 10,000 years old) believes that God created the heaven and the earth.

Any Christian that believes in an old earth (billions and billions of years old) has a hard time justifying their belief in God.
Click to expand...
No, actually they don't have a hard time at all. Because believing THAT God created the universe doesn't depend on believing some ancient religious story of HOW God did it.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
If Noah's flood was a legend why should anyone trust Jesus?
Click to expand...
If believing in Jesus means one has to believe in supernatural feats, then one's belief is pretty weak and baseless to begin with. But if believing in Jesus means believing in the promise that God's love and forgiveness, acting in us and through us to each other, will heal us and save us from ourselves; then all any of us really needs to do is to try the idea on, and live with it for a while, and we will see for ourselves whether it's true or not. No magical, supernatural feats are needed. Nor is our believing in them, required.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
alwight said:
This thread is actually predicated on Noah's flood being a legend, so you might want to refrain from whinging to the mods for once. :think:
Click to expand...

Thank you for providing a new word for my vocabulary.
____
whinge
(h)winj
BRITISH informal
verb
gerund or present participle: whinging
complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way.
____​

The proper American English (only true English language) version is whining
_____
whine
(h)wīn
verb
gerund or present participle: whining
give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
complain in a feeble or petulant way.
_____​
 
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