I just hear this: Why was Satan told to partake of the ground?

[Ps82]

It was on a commercial on TV for some other cause and no link to read an article; so, what I will write are my own ideas.
Well, I have a suggestion based on what I've gathered from scripture.

Satan's link happened in Genesis 3:14. Follow my thought within [...]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent [SATAN], "Because You have done this [TEMPTED AND PERSUADED EVE and Adam TO SIN], you art cursed above [MORE THAN] all cattle, and above [MORE THAN] every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt you eat [PARTAKE OF] all the days of your life [cattle and other beast of the field partake of the fruit of the ground ... but you have permission to partake of the DUST].

Hopefully you are following my train of thought.

I will tell you I do consider symbolism which I find is quite eye opening when one begins to see it. KJV used 'ground' to translated scripture. I suggest that ground could represent certain elements of creation. Above the translators made an effort to distinguish between ground and dust for a reason.

Since the body of humanity was formed from the specific elements of creation called ground, I began to wonder what was the difference between dust and ground. Humanity was already connected to the ground due to the make up of the body. So???

Well, over time I realized that "water" is associated with spiritual life in many instances. Then I began to see that DUST would be elements void of water / life! Satan had been both cursed to partake of the lifeless bodies of man and maybe ??? other dead things ??? It was a curse in that he was lowered in status to dwell among mankind...yet, the curse also gave him a "privilege" so to speak.

Then one day I read an account where Satan argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body. I always ask why.
It hit me. Satan thought he had a right to possess the dust of the dead body of Moses because Moses had committed a great sin at the ROCK of Horeb. Satan thought that surely God had rejected Moses and he "owned" Moses.

In what way? My thoughts: All sinners who have never made Christ their intercessor are LOST SOULS. Satan was given a right to their lifeless dust/elements of creation and therefore so goes Satan at the end of times so go all those he possesses by their continued attachment to the cursed dust.

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man, one of the princes [IOW, the small and the great among mankind]. This is describing what happens when God is finally ready to make all things new. It is called the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death for humanity... but the 'first death' for Satan. Therefore, Satan and humanity do meet the same death .... in the end.

Fear the Lord who can destroy body and soul ... Accept the gift of salvation our Lord can provide. Amen

 

[Ps82]

Thanks for reading Bradley D.

 

[7djengo7]

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man

Psalm 82 does not say Satan will die like a man.

 

[7djengo7]

Thanks for reading Bradley D.

Don't you know how to tag TOL users, so that they might get notifications that you are talking about, or addressing them? Don't just write their name; instead, use the @ symbol: not Ps82, but instead, @Ps82.

 

[Derf]

Psalm 82 does not say Satan will die like a man.

i think you read that wrong. it was supposed to be "@Ps82 says that Satan will die like a man."

 

[Derf]

It was on a commercial on TV for some other cause and no link to read an article; so, what I will write are my own ideas.
Well, I have a suggestion based on what I've gathered from scripture.

Satan's link happened in Genesis 3:14. Follow my thought within [...]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent [SATAN], "Because You have done this [TEMPTED AND PERSUADED EVE and Adam TO SIN], you art cursed above [MORE THAN] all cattle, and above [MORE THAN] every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt you eat [PARTAKE OF] all the days of your life [cattle and other beast of the field partake of the fruit of the ground ... but you have permission to partake of the DUST].

Hopefully you are following my train of thought.

I will tell you I do consider symbolism which I find is quite eye opening when one begins to see it. KJV used 'ground' to translated scripture. I suggest that ground could represent certain elements of creation. Above the translators made an effort to distinguish between ground and dust for a reason.

Since the body of humanity was formed from the specific elements of creation called ground, I began to wonder what was the difference between dust and ground. Humanity was already connected to the ground due to the make up of the body. So???

Well, over time I realized that "water" is associated with spiritual life in many instances. Then I began to see that DUST would be elements void of water / life! Satan had been both cursed to partake of the lifeless bodies of man and maybe ??? other dead things ??? It was a curse in that he was lowered in status to dwell among mankind...yet, the curse also gave him a "privilege" so to speak.

Then one day I read an account where Satan argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body. I always ask why.
It hit me. Satan thought he had a right to possess the dust of the body of Moses because Moses had committed a great sin at the ROCK of Horeb. Satan thought that he owned Moses.

In what way? My thoughts: All sinners who have never made Christ their intercessor are LOST SOULS. Satan has a right to their dust/lifeless elements of creation and so goes Satan at the end of times goes those lost souls still attached to the cursed dust.

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man, one of the princes. This is describing what happens when God is ready to make things new. It is called the Lake of Fire or the Second Death. Second death for humanity and the 'first death' for Satan. So, Satan and humanity do meat the same death in the end.

Fear the Lord who can destroy body and soul ... Accept the gift of salvation our Lord can provide. Amen

I think you are on to something, but it isn't the bodies Satan is most concerned about, rather it is mankind itself. A few verses later God tells Adam, "You are dust." So Satan became the thing that wants to kill all of mankind AND prevent them from being resurrected. That last part fits with your proposal about the bodies of mankind--if they belong to Satan, then God doesn't have permission to resurrect them again. However, when Christ gained the victory over death, resurrection became assured for all mankind--Satan was defeated; his head was crushed.

 

[Ps82]

I think you are on to something, but it isn't the bodies Satan is most concerned about, rather it is mankind itself.

Oh yes... Satan knows how to harm humanity and he is out to get us.

A few verses later God tells Adam, "You are dust." So Satan became the thing that wants to kill all of mankind AND prevent them from being resurrected.

You have it! But it was God's plan of how to rid creation of angels and men who reject Him as their savior. God commanded that Satan and mankind to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their lives. Humanity partakes of the dust until his first mortal death. Then the living spiritual part of humanity go to 'storage places' prepared for them. Places separating the 'saved' from the lost.'

But Satan still roams the world to which he became attached by God's command for him to partake of its elements/ground for the rest of his life.

Yes, it is the dust that takes man to his first mortal death ... This is the ground which was cursed for man's sake. Those 'saved' will shed that body of cursed ground and get a new eternal one ... but those never circumcised from that cursed dust by our risen Lord will experience the second death. Man has a first and second death but the second death is for men and angels together. So goes the dust so goes the lost souls of men and angels/Satan.

Is there any wonder that Satan argued with an angel for the dead body of Moses. Moses had sinned at least a couple of big sins ... and Satan thought he had a right to partake of that cursed dust so that Moses would go to the Lake of Fire with him. But the angel simply said: May the Lord rebuke you... IOW, it is Lord Jesus who decides to rescue mankind from our sins and takes us to his kingdom. God did curse the ground for our sake and for the sake of his perfected kingdom.

That last part fits with your proposal about the bodies of mankind--if they belong to Satan, then God doesn't have permission to resurrect them again.

Yes, guess that is the way to put it. Sounds good at the moment.

However, when Christ gained the victory over death, resurrection became assured for all mankind

Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.

--Satan was defeated; his head was crushed.

Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD. Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.

Nice conversation. Thanks

 

[7djengo7]

I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men.

You've already been notified at least once as to the falsity (and obvious baselessness) of your claim that God, in Psalm 82, told Satan he would die like a man. You have remained silent to the objections, and have decided, despite them -- and despite your failure and inability to answer them -- to simply continue asserting your falsehood. You're stopping your ears and playing make-believe, because you so want your falsehood to be true, and that's self-destructive behavior.

 

[Derf]

Oh yes... Satan knows how to harm humanity and he is out to get us.

You have it! But it was God's plan of how to rid creation of angels and men who reject Him as their savior. God commanded that Satan and mankind to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their lives. Humanity partakes of the dust until his first mortal death.

"Mortal death" means "deathly death". I don't understand why both terms are needed. "First" is an interesting adjective to use on "deathly death". It makes it seem like there's a "second" deathly death expected. But God only told Adam he would "surely die" (or "dying he would die", which might account for "deathly death").

Then the living spiritual part of humanity go to 'storage places' prepared for them. Places separating the 'saved' from the lost.'

But isn't our salvation only realized in the resurrection? If so, then there are no saved dead people. Once you are resurrected, then you are experiencing salvation, right?

But Satan still roams the world to which he became attached by God's command for him to partake of its elements/ground for the rest of his life.

Yes, it is the dust that takes man to his first mortal death ... This is the ground which was cursed for man's sake. Those 'saved' will shed that body of cursed ground and get a new eternal one ... but those never circumcised from that cursed dust by our risen Lord will experience the second death. Man has a first and second death but the second death is for men and angels together.

The second death appears to be necessary because the first death is no longer available--it has been defeated by the resurrection.

Angels might participate, but it isn't called "second death" for them, since they never had a first death.

So goes the dust so goes the lost souls of men and angels/Satan.

Is there any wonder that Satan argued with an angel for the dead body of Moses. Moses had sinned at least a couple of big sins ... and Satan thought he had a right to partake of that cursed dust so that Moses would go to the Lake of Fire with him. But the angel simply said: May the Lord rebuke you... IOW, it is Lord Jesus who decides to rescue mankind from our sins and takes us to his kingdom. God did curse the ground for our sake and for the sake of his perfected kingdom.

Yes, guess that is the way to put it. Sounds good at the moment.

Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.

Why is it a rub?

Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD.

This seems to be the reason why a second type of death is necessary, because after people have been raised from.the dead, they still don't acknowledge Him as lord (i.e., as the one who gets to make the rules.)

Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.

Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."

Nice conversation. Thanks

 

[Ps82]

"Mortal death" means "deathly death". I don't understand why both terms are needed. "First" is an interesting adjective to use on "deathly death". It makes it seem like there's a "second" deathly death expected. But God only told Adam he would "surely die" (or "dying he would die", which might account for "deathly death").

There is a second death for humanity. It is called the Lake of Fire. I was the sort of death he planned for the angels. People assume it was a place for them to exist suffering there forever. I'm not sure I see things that way, but I have not singled in on a study of that at this time ... anyway that is another topic. What I am saying is that humanity dies a first death, which I call the bodily death of a mortal, but the Lake of fire is the Second Death for lost human souls.

Why is humanity a mortal at this stage... because God cursed the ground [the elements] from which our present bodies were formed. But most believers know the saints will receive another body.

1. I first body for man became mortal where we suffer and die,
2. the second will be robes of white where some saints cry out: How long must we wait for this and that,
3. and the third will be an everlasting glorified body of some sort [The level of glorification may somehow correspond to the works done here on earth. I haven't done a study on this as well.

But isn't our salvation only realized in the resurrection? If so, then there are no saved dead people. Once you are resurrected, then you are experiencing salvation, right?

When saved people die, their spiritual essence will have a body waiting for it. With that form saints will exit being seen in heavenly places... as in saints in robes/clothes of white. This speaks of their bodies. Unsaved people continue to live but in hell... now whether they have a body or not I'm not sure but somehow they are feeling heat and thirst as well as anguish and anger They also await to see what will happen. Of course, we know it will be the Lake of Fire. I have opinions about that as well but it will be off topic.

The second death appears to be necessary because the first death is no longer available--it has been defeated by the resurrection.

The curse upon the ground which led to man's First Death was done by God FOR MAN'S SAKE. IOW, For man's own good! Jesus overcame that death and made it possible to shed the cursed body to get ready for better things. Lost people are not released from the curse upon the ground and they await their fate. The curse is still upon them/associated with them.

Angels might participate, but it isn't called "second death" for them, since they never had a first death.

I so agree. The Lake of Fire will be their first death. And even before they reach their first death they have a fear of being thrown into THE PIT. All I know about The Pit is this:

• It is pictured in the NT as a place between the Bosom of Abraham and and Hell. I've heard the phrase - the great divide' used.
• There were many demons who were possessing a man, who were cast out. They cried out to Jesus to not throw them in The PIT. Jesus, of course, sent them into pigs instead of into the pit because he knew it was not THAT TIME for that stage.
• I know Satan will be put in chains after Christ returns and rules for 1,000 years as a king upon earth ... I assume at this time that he is chained in that place called The Pit. [Guess at this time.]

Why is it a rub?

I didn't know we had a rub. Remind me???

This seems to be the reason why a second type of death is necessary, because after people have been raised from.the dead, they still don't acknowledge Him as lord (i.e., as the one who gets to make the rules.)

Basically, those who rejected him in his first life don't get a second chance to acknowledge him as Lord. If you have verses otherwise ... share. I'll take a look.

Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."

Wish I had time to expound on this part ... but have grand kids and they are fighting! Sigh.

 

[7djengo7]

What I am saying is that humanity dies a first death

That sort of thinking seems problematic. What you're doing is seeing the phrase, "the second death", in the Bible, and thinking: "Well, since the Bible calls something 'the second death', then surely I must be warranted to call something 'a/the first death', even though I find no such phrase in the Bible -- since you can't have a 'second something' without having a 'first something'." I am not saying it has to be wrong to use an extra-Biblical phrase such as "a/the first death", but, if you choose to do so, it's incumbent on you to explain exactly why you do so, and to describe exactly what you are referring to by it.

 

[7djengo7]

the Lake of fire is the Second Death for lost human souls.

The beast is a human soul, no? And, the false prophet is a human soul, no?

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

Would you want to say

the Lake of fire is the Second Death for [the human soul who is the beast]

and,

the Lake of fire is the Second Death for [the human soul who is the false prophet]

or, in other words,

the Lake of fire is the Second Death for [human souls who are cast ALIVE into it]

?

 

[Ps82]

"Mortal death" means "deathly death". I don't understand why both terms are needed. "First" is an interesting adjective to use on "deathly death". It makes it seem like there's a "second" deathly death expected. But God only told Adam he would "surely die" (or "dying he would die", which might account for "deathly death").

But isn't our salvation only realized in the resurrection? If so, then there are no saved dead people. Once you are resurrected, then you are experiencing salvation, right?

The second death appears to be necessary because the first death is no longer available--it has been defeated by the resurrection.

Angels might participate, but it isn't called "second death" for them, since they never had a first death.

Why is it a rub?

This seems to be the reason why a second type of death is necessary, because after people have been raised from.the dead, they still don't acknowledge Him as lord (i.e., as the one who gets to make the rules.)

Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."

Derf said: "Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."
I think I had this train of thought in mind at the time:

I ponder things like this - Life is in the blood. All my life I've heard people say "I took the shedding of Christ's blood to being salvation."
Well, one of the components of blood is water. Christ explained to the Woman at the Well that she had water from which she would thirst. This water would have to continually be replenished. Then he told her he had water to provide from which she WOULD NEVER thirst again.

Since I believe that water symbolically has to do with imparting life as the mist that was added to the ground before The LORD formed the body for mankind ... I realized humanity looses that measure of bodily life with they die. It took God, our Lord to live a sinless life to provide that additional measure of life for eternity's sake. He fulfilled his mission, he over came the curse and now has the authority to give that second measure of eternal life to his followers.

I was just sort of praising our Lord for the miracle he was able to accomplish for us.

 

[Derf]

Derf said: "Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."
I think I had this train of thought in mind at the time:

I ponder things like this - Life is in the blood. All my life I've heard people say "I took the shedding of Christ's blood to being salvation."
Well, one of the components of blood is water. Christ explained to the Woman at the Well that she had water from which she would thirst. This water would have to continually be replenished. Then he told her he had water to provide from which she WOULD NEVER thirst again.

Since I believe that water symbolically has to do with imparting life as the mist that was added to the ground before The LORD formed the body for mankind ... I realized humanity looses that measure of bodily life with they die. It took God, our Lord to live a sinless life to provide that additional measure of life for eternity's sake. He fulfilled his mission, he over came the curse and now has the authority to give that second measure of eternal life to his followers.

I was just sort of praising our Lord for the miracle he was able to accomplish for us.

I suppose that it could be a connection between blood and water...and wine? There seem too many metaphors to try to mix them all together.

But yes, life from the dead is a great miracle bought by Jesus' blood.

 

[Ps82]

I suppose that it could be a connection between blood and water...and wine? There seem too many metaphors to try to mix them all together.

But yes, life from the dead is a great miracle bought by Jesus' blood.

First, I apologize for all the typos in my previous post. I have an old key board lap top and the letters are prone to stick and I just type away and don't always look back. Maybe spell check makes some assumptions as well. Sigh

I am prone to watch for figurative symbolism ... but I think when God establishes a connection that thread will carry through. Blood and water flowed from Jesus as he died on the cross. And Jesus turned the water to wine at the wedding. He also made a profound statement to his mom at that miracle.

John 2:1-4 I don't know whether Jesus's mother understood his innuendo in his reply or not but she at least knew he had the powers to do the earthly miracle.
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there.
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they [the guests at the wedding] wanted wine, the mother of Jesus said [perhaps insinuated] unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, [notice KJV capitalizes Woman] what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not yet come.

Here is the way I see verse 4:
Woman was capitalized for it was used like a proper noun/a name. Mary was The Woman who brought for the seed promised in Genesis 3.
It was not yet the hour for Jesus to leave this life [a measure of life/water behind] and provide next measure of life his followers are to receive for eternal life [the wine.]

How do I know that there is a connection between water, blood and wine? At the last supper right before he was crucified, for it was time for him to provide the wine for real, he told his disciples that the cup of wine represented his blood!

In my opinion: When Jesus spilled water from his side mixed with blood that was a sign of the old measure of human life leaving and the new additional life forming. It takes the pure perfect blood of Jesus to bring our eternal life.

It all connects between what Jesus told the woman at the well what he told The Woman/Mary at the wedding. If you will remember Jesus announced from the Cross: Woman behold your Son!!!

 

[Ps82]

Why were Mankind and Satan both told to partake of the dust of the ground [Elements from which creation was formed] ? It was God's way to get rid of Satan and lost mankind. So goes the cursed elements of this world so goes lost angels and humanity. God will renew the world and death and hell will be gone... due to the power of the Lake of Fire.

 

[7djengo7]

Why were Mankind and Satan both told to partake of the dust of the ground [Elements from which creation was formed] ?

Haha! Haven't heard that one since 1987! I can't exactly remember the answer. I want to say it's something like "A newspaper," "Elephino," or "To get to the other side," but none of those seems to quite be the right answer. I give up. Can you please tell us the answer? Like, maybe print it in tiny, upside-down text at the bottom of this page, so that it won't be a spoiler for any who may still be interested in trying to solve your riddle.

 

[ok doser]

Haha! Haven't heard that one since 1987! I can't exactly remember the answer. I want to say it's something like "A newspaper," "Elephino," or "To get to the other side," but none of those seems to quite be the right answer. I give up. Can you please tell us the answer? Like, maybe print it in tiny, upside-down text at the bottom of this page, so that it won't be a spoiler for any who may still be interested in trying to solve your riddle.

Mankind, Satan and an Irishman walk into a bar. How many elephants were there?

 

[Clete]

It was on a commercial on TV for some other cause and no link to read an article; so, what I will write are my own ideas.
Well, I have a suggestion based on what I've gathered from scripture.

Satan's link happened in Genesis 3:14. Follow my thought within [...]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent [SATAN], "Because You have done this [TEMPTED AND PERSUADED EVE and Adam TO SIN], you art cursed above [MORE THAN] all cattle, and above [MORE THAN] every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt you eat [PARTAKE OF] all the days of your life [cattle and other beast of the field partake of the fruit of the ground ... but you have permission to partake of the DUST].

Hopefully you are following my train of thought.

I will tell you I do consider symbolism which I find is quite eye opening when one begins to see it. KJV used 'ground' to translated scripture. I suggest that ground could represent certain elements of creation. Above the translators made an effort to distinguish between ground and dust for a reason.

Since the body of humanity was formed from the specific elements of creation called ground, I began to wonder what was the difference between dust and ground. Humanity was already connected to the ground due to the make up of the body. So???

Well, over time I realized that "water" is associated with spiritual life in many instances. Then I began to see that DUST would be elements void of water / life! Satan had been both cursed to partake of the lifeless bodies of man and maybe ??? other dead things ??? It was a curse in that he was lowered in status to dwell among mankind...yet, the curse also gave him a "privilege" so to speak.

Then one day I read an account where Satan argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body. I always ask why.
It hit me. Satan thought he had a right to possess the dust of the dead body of Moses because Moses had committed a great sin at the ROCK of Horeb. Satan thought that surely God had rejected Moses and he "owned" Moses.

In what way? My thoughts: All sinners who have never made Christ their intercessor are LOST SOULS. Satan was given a right to their lifeless dust/elements of creation and therefore so goes Satan at the end of times so go all those he possesses by their continued attachment to the cursed dust.

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man, one of the princes [IOW, the small and the great among mankind]. This is describing what happens when God is finally ready to make all things new. It is called the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death for humanity... but the 'first death' for Satan. Therefore, Satan and humanity do meet the same death .... in the end.

Fear the Lord who can destroy body and soul ... Accept the gift of salvation our Lord can provide. Amen

This nonsense doesn't hold together for two seconds, even by the lowest of rational standards! What sort of insidious stupidity has to eat away at a man's mind and for how long before they could read any of this and take it the least bit seriously, never mind being it's author!! This makes Billy Madison's "Industrial Revolution" speech sound like Shakespeare!

The author of the above, who is so arrogant that he desires to be referred to by a bible passage, which I will not do, is dangerous. His doctrine is formulated in precisely the same way as Jim Jones and Y.B.Y and David Koresh. He is a cultist, possibly a cult leader.

The difference between dust and ground! That's really what this moron thinks is the basis for a profound bible teaching?! This is the cranny into which this lunatic believes God has hidden a gem of wisdom? And just what is that gem? That the serpent is a carrion eater and that Satan wanted to eat Moses' dead body and that somehow Satan owns the unsaved. Wow! I mean, seriously! That is a level of mental deficiency that I've never encountered before.

This just goes to show you that any wacko doctrine that someone can think of can be taught from scripture if what this imbecile does is in anyway valid. This heretic deserves nothing but ridicule and derision.

 

[7djengo7]

First, I apologize for all the typos in my previous post. I have an old key board lap top and the letters are prone to stick and I just type away and don't always look back. Maybe spell check makes some assumptions as well. Sigh

It's up to you, and no one else, to take appropriate measures if you do not want your posts to read, as they do, as the ravings of a deranged, illiterate lunatic. In your case, it could almost be a reasonable recommendation that you should stop typing and, instead, let some rabid cats walk around on your keyboard, if you want your post content to improve.