How to apply the Bible to Government

[Jefferson]

How to apply the Bible to Government

Monday October 17th, 2005. This is show # 206.

PERTINENT QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

The Sabbath is not a moral command that God wrote on our hearts. The Bible says the Sabbath is a sign. It's a symbol of God's covenant relationship with the nation of Israel. And so God never said that the Greeks had to keep the Sabbath and not work on Saturday. He didn't say that. He didnt' say that the Egyptians had to avoid eating levened bread on certain days. He didn't say that.

But, you know what? The Philistines, they were not allowed to murder, to steal, to commit adultery or to bear false witness against their neighbor and on Judgment Day the Philistines will be judged for those kinds of behaviors because they're sins for all the human race.

 

[keypurr]

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

How can it say that the sabbath is NOT a moral command? All the ten commandments are moral laws that should be in our hearts. Christ did not do away with them.

 

[Jefferson]

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

How can it say that the sabbath is NOT a moral command? All the ten commandments are moral laws that should be in our hearts. Christ did not do away with them.

The words in bold should answer your question.

 

[keypurr]

The words in bold should answer your question.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

My friend, who do you think the "House of Israel really is?"

 

[Jefferson]

My friend, who do you think the "House of Israel really is?"

Not the Body of Christ. That's for sure.

 

[allsmiles]

But, you know what? The Philistines, they were not allowed to murder, to steal, to commit adultery or to bear false witness against their neighbor and on Judgment Day the Philistines will be judged for those kinds of behaviors because they're sins for all the human race.

only problem is that bob completely ignores cultural context. the philistines were brought up and conditioned in a culture where perhaps these sort of "sins" were not as reprehensible as the israelites considered them to be. bob completely ignores the fact that we have the benefit of hindsight, you can back engineer what the bible says until you're blue in the face, the philistines didn't have that luxury and to believe that a god would condemn a people for their ignorance and societal conditioning isn't the sign of a merciful god, it's the sign of a tyrant which is a perfect indication that the words of your god as written in the bible are actually the words of men.

god is infinite and inhuman, and is therefore not subject to the attributes of humanity, such as tyranny. human qualities have been applied here to an inhuman entity, you've deluded god and have lost the truth.

 

[Rimi]

Are you absolutely sure, allsmiles?

 

[allsmiles]

Are you absolutely sure, allsmiles?

nope, i could be dead wrong, i could be hell bound right now, and i'm totally comfortable with that, like i always say, even if what you say is true i would still reject it.

 

[Rimi]

Are you absolutely sure?

 

[Aimiel]

... you can back engineer what the bible says until you're blue in the face, the philistines didn't have that luxury and to believe that a god would condemn a people for their ignorance and societal conditioning isn't the sign of a merciful god, it's the sign of a tyrant which is a perfect indication that the words of your god as written in the bible are actually the words of men.

I have no doubt but that life on this planet would have ceased long ago, had God not judged Sodom and Gommorrah; just like I have no doubt that we'd have been overrun with short-sighted firecrackers like yourself, and probably have destroyed ourselves with war long before now, had God not wiped out the Philistines for their insolence, like unto your own. It's the fools who don't learn from being corrected that bring us to our doom, not good people who want to mark and share those lessons. Yes, The Bible is words of men. If you don't believe in God, then you're never going to get the truth of what those words can lead you to, which is The Word of God; all you'll ever get are words of men. That's all there is in print. If The Word of God were in print, none of us could read It, because we wouldn't be able to bear to look at It. It is the fact that God inspired the words and that He is 'in' those words and that relationship with Him can be found by those words. That is The Word of God, because He is imparted by hearing those words, not because some letters inked on some paper are Him.

 

[allsmiles]

I have no doubt but that life on this planet would have ceased long ago, had God not judged Sodom and Gommorrah; just like I have no doubt that we'd have been overrun with short-sighted firecrackers like yourself, and probably have destroyed ourselves with war long before now, had God not wiped out the Philistines for their insolence, like unto your own. It's the fools who don't learn from being corrected that bring us to our doom, not good people who want to mark and share those lessons. Yes, The Bible is words of men. If you don't believe in God, then you're never going to get the truth of what those words can lead you to, which is The Word of God; all you'll ever get are words of men. That's all there is in print. If The Word of God were in print, none of us could read It, because we wouldn't be able to bear to look at It. It is the fact that God inspired the words and that He is 'in' those words and that relationship with Him can be found by those words. That is The Word of God, because He is imparted by hearing those words, not because some letters inked on some paper are Him.

in the scope of human history religious zealouts like yourself are the firecrackers. i'm just an insidious bystander watching history do what it has always done: move on and leave religion in the dust as new ideas, philosophies and schools of thought develop and leave the old behind. religion is not exempt from survival of the fittest. christianity is no longer the fittest.

what was that i heard about the RCC trash-canning the 1st 11 chapters of genesis as historically and scientifically inaccurate? didn't i just hear about them condemning fundamentalism? church attendances are at an all time low and only falling, spirituality is on the increase and strict adherence to fundamentalist theology is declining, that and one of the oldest religious institutions in the world, the mother of what you now know to be true, just condemned your entire way of thought and dropped it in the gutter of myth.

no genesis, no fall of man, no fall of man no original sin, no original sin and no need for the redemptive work of a savior. jesus isn't the head, genesis is, and the head was just killed.

 

[Granite]

I have no doubt but that life on this planet would have ceased long ago, had God not judged Sodom and Gommorrah; just like I have no doubt that we'd have been overrun with short-sighted firecrackers like yourself, and probably have destroyed ourselves with war long before now, had God not wiped out the Philistines for their insolence, like unto your own. It's the fools who don't learn from being corrected that bring us to our doom, not good people who want to mark and share those lessons. Yes, The Bible is words of men. If you don't believe in God, then you're never going to get the truth of what those words can lead you to, which is The Word of God; all you'll ever get are words of men. That's all there is in print. If The Word of God were in print, none of us could read It, because we wouldn't be able to bear to look at It. It is the fact that God inspired the words and that He is 'in' those words and that relationship with Him can be found by those words. That is The Word of God, because He is imparted by hearing those words, not because some letters inked on some paper are Him.

Excuse me, you think life on this planet would have ceased if Sodom and Gommorah weren't wiped out?

What exactly are you smoking? This is nutty even for you.

 

[Aimiel]

in the scope of human history religious zealouts like yourself are the firecrackers.

I'm not religious, or a zealot. Shows how much you know about me.

i'm just an insidious bystander watching history do what it has always done: move on and leave religion in the dust as new ideas, philosophies and schools of thought develop and leave the old behind. religion is not exempt from survival of the fittest. christianity is no longer the fittest.

According to you. Christianity is the only offer that God makes to men, to enter Heaven by.

what was that i heard about the RCC trash-canning the 1st 11 chapters of genesis as historically and scientifically inaccurate?

The RCC isn't Christian, just as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses aren't. What they say and do has little, if any, effect upon Christianity.

didn't i just hear about them condemning fundamentalism?

They've been doing that since Martin Luther began to reveal what had been lost during the dark ages. His revelations are why we are able to recognize them as dark. Had he not posted his theses, we might live under a global theocratic Papacy.

church attendances are at an all time low and only falling, spirituality is on the increase and strict adherence to fundamentalist theology is declining, that and one of the oldest religious institutions in the world, the mother of what you now know to be true, just condemned your entire way of thought and dropped it in the gutter of myth.

:yawn: :crackup:

no genesis, no fall of man, no fall of man no original sin, no original sin and no need for the redemptive work of a savior. jesus isn't the head, genesis is, and the head was just killed.

Jesus is The Head of His Body, The Church, which isn't dead, though, even if it were, God is capable of raising the dead. Should all Christians fail in their duty, He can also raise stones to life and cause them to witness His Grace. :duh:

 

[Aimiel]

Excuse me, you think life on this planet would have ceased if Sodom and Gommorah weren't wiped out?

I don't doubt but that men who would spread their queer ways across the planet would have wiped humanity out by the spread of AIDS before we could even discover germs, to begin to learn to protect ourselves from them. God wouldn't burn an entire city to the ground just for kicks. He had a purpose in mind, and the salvation of those remaining on the earth was foremost in His Mind. Why do you think it happened? Most would say that it was an example of justice for those who'd sinned against nature, as well as Him and themselves, by queer sexual practices.

 

[Granite]

I don't doubt but that men who would spread their queer ways across the planet would have wiped humanity out by the spread of AIDS before we could even discover germs, to begin to learn to protect ourselves from them. God wouldn't burn an entire city to the ground just for kicks. He had a purpose in mind, and the salvation of those remaining on the earth was foremost in His Mind. Why do you think it happened? Most would say that it was an example of justice for those who'd sinned against nature, as well as Him and themselves, by queer sexual practices.

Aimiel, this is probably the stupidest post you have ever written on TOL, and that says a lot.

Homosexuality has been with mankind since mankind. It is a universal practice that has been known in every civilization throughout history. If it was gonna wipe us out, it would have done so by now, during antiquity, before the development of modern medicine, when we were primitives.

It is believed AIDS was spawned through the consumption of contaminated bushmeat that mutated when the blood was mixed with human blood, or when the ape flesh was digested. (A more out there, though plausible theory, argues that AIDS was a man-made virus that either got out of the lab accidently or was deliberately released as a biological weapon.)

Wiping out Sodom and Gomorrah, even if this story is true, did next to nothing to nip homosexuality in the bud.

 

[Aimiel]

It is believed AIDS was spawned through the consumption of contaminated bushmeat that mutated when the blood was mixed with human blood, or when the ape flesh was digested. (A more out there, though plausible theory, argues that AIDS was a man-made virus that either got out of the lab accidently or was deliberately released as a biological weapon.)

Wiping out Sodom and Gomorrah, even if this story is true, did next to nothing to nip homosexuality in the bud.

Granite, this is certainly one of the most foolish posts you've ever written, which doesn't say much for you.

You don't know that AIDS had not spread throughout Sodom or Gommorrah, and that burning would be the safest way to stop it from continuing, unchecked by any anti-microbial practices which we take for granted today. You're guessing, but trying to say that your 'guesses' are more valid than mine. Also, I meant that taking queer, and calling it 'homosexual' or 'lifestyle choice' is what God killed that day, not every queer. Perverting reality and calling it anything other than perversion is wrong, and is the error that men continue to practice, which you make a good example of. You try to make queer behavior seem normal or widespread, and have swallowed the mass media's lie and are trying to regurgitate it onto us. Please try reality, at least once in a while. :loser:

 

[Granite]

Granite, this is certainly one of the most foolish posts you've ever written, which doesn't say much for you.

You don't know that AIDS had not spread throughout Sodom or Gommorrah, and that burning would be the safest way to stop it from continuing, unchecked by any anti-microbial practices which we take for granted today. You're guessing, but trying to say that your 'guesses' are more valid than mine. Also, I meant that taking queer, and calling it 'homosexual' or 'lifestyle choice' is what God killed that day, not every queer. Perverting reality and calling it anything other than perversion is wrong, and is the error that men continue to practice, which you make a good example of. You try to make queer behavior seem normal or widespread, and have swallowed the mass media's lie and are trying to regurgitate it onto us. Please try reality, at least once in a while. :loser:

Aimiel.

You really, really, really should not talk to me about reality when you know next to nothing about this subject.

AIDS is a new development. Nothing you think or say will ever change that. It was undocumented until the late 20th century and was unknown until then. Period. I'll say this much: if what you say is true, "God" did a lousy job wiping out this vicious affliction, because it's still with us.

You, my dear sir, are a completely ignorant, misinformed, uneducated buffoon.

 

[Aimiel]

You really, really, really should not talk to me about reality when you know next to nothing about this subject.

In reality, reality reality you're very foolish, indeed.

AIDS is a new development.

Who's to say that the queers in Sodom didn't cook up something even worse, which could spread through the air? Really, you're not giving much thought to what you say, are you?

I'll say this much: if what you say is true, "God" did a lousy job wiping out this vicious affliction, because it's still with us.

Maybe you should read my posts a little better. I said that He may have done this because man hadn't yet discovered the microbe. :duh:

You, my dear sir, are a completely ignorant, misinformed, uneducated buffoon.

I know that you are, sonny boy, but what am I? Please make better attempts at comprehending reality. atrol:

 

[erinmarie]

In reality, reality reality you're very foolish, indeed.Who's to say that the queers in Sodom didn't cook up something even worse, which could spread through the air?

Aimiel!! Do you know how ignorant that sounds! AIDS may be spread by homosexuals, and may have mutated through years of passing from human to human. But the "queers" certainly didn't "cook up" a biological entity! No one can make a filovirus like AIDS, Marburg, or Ebola...Not even the most resourceful and well-educated Homo! You should reword that response if you don't want to sound foolish.

 

[Granite]

Aimiel!! Do you know how ignorant that sounds! AIDS may be spread by homosexuals, and may have mutated through years of passing from human to human. But the "queers" certainly didn't "cook up" a biological entity! No one can make a filovirus like AIDS, Marburg, or Ebola...Not even the most resourceful and well-educated Homo! You should reword that response if you don't want to sound foolish.

I'm glad somebody else around here caught that.