ECT HOW MANY COVENANTS ARE THERE ??

[DAN P]

Hi to all and we know that there are at least 4 covenants , the ABRAHAMIC , the Palestian , the Davidic , and the New Covenant !!

In Heb 8:8 it mentions the Old Covenant in contrast , to a better one called a New Covenant !

And in Gal 4:22 ,that Abraham , had 2 sons !!

And verse 24 says that there are 2 COVENANTS / DIATHEKES !!

In verse 25 it speaks to Hagar , which represents the Old Covenant !

But the other COVENANT / DIATHEKE which speaks of the Jerusalem which is above is free which is a mother (to) us all !!

Looks like there are a total 5 covenants !!

All that Paul is saying in Gal 4:22-31 is that those who are under the Law are likened to Hagar , and are in Bondage to it !!

Those NOT under the Law are likened to Sarah , and are free from the Law !!

Last 2 lines are from Robert C Brock !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi to all and we know that there are at least 4 covenants , the ABRAHAMIC , the Palestian , the Davidic , and the New Covenant !!

In Heb 8:8 it mentions the Old Covenant in contrast , to a better one called a New Covenant !

And in Gal 4:22 ,that Abraham , had 2 sons !!

And verse 24 says that there are 2 COVENANTS / DIATHEKES !!

In verse 25 it speaks to Hagar , which represents the Old Covenant !

But the other COVENANT / DIATHEKE which speaks of the Jerusalem which is above is free which is a mother (to) us all !!

Looks like there are a total 5 covenants !!

All that Paul is saying in Gal 4:22-31 is that those who are under the Law are likened to Hagar , and are in Bondage to it !!

Those NOT under the Law are likened to Sarah , and are free from the Law !!

Last 2 lines are from Robert C Brock !!

dan p

I'm curious. What do you make of Paul saying that although he was not under the law of Moses he was not without law to God because he was under the law of Christ?

 

[DAN P]

I'm curious. What do you make of Paul saying that although he was not under the law of Moses he was not without law to God because he was under the law of Christ?

Hi and God does have Laws for us in Rom 13:8-9 !!

Does 1 Cor 9:21 ring a bell ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and God does have Laws for us in Rom 13:8-9 !!

So we are under law?

Does 1 Cor 9:21 ring a bell ??

dan p

Yep, that's where I got it.

 

[DAN P]

So we are under law?




Yep, that's where I got it.

Hi and the word COMMANDMENT / DIATAGMA can also be translated DECREE and there are 354 of them written by Paul and the first one is 1 Cor 14:37 !!

Robert C Brock wrote a book on this subject and I have one !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi to all and we know that there are at least 4 covenants , the ABRAHAMIC , the Palestian , the Davidic , and the New Covenant !!

In Heb 8:8 it mentions the Old Covenant in contrast , to a better one called a New Covenant !

And in Gal 4:22 ,that Abraham , had 2 sons !!

And verse 24 says that there are 2 COVENANTS / DIATHEKES !!

In verse 25 it speaks to Hagar , which represents the Old Covenant !

But the other COVENANT / DIATHEKE which speaks of the Jerusalem which is above is free which is a mother (to) us all !!

Looks like there are a total 5 covenants !!

All that Paul is saying in Gal 4:22-31 is that those who are under the Law are likened to Hagar , and are in Bondage to it !!

Those NOT under the Law are likened to Sarah , and are free from the Law !!

Last 2 lines are from Robert C Brock !!

dan p

Yep. :thumb:

I remember reading that in some writing or other by Brock (shortly after reading in a 28er book, by Welch, I think it was, the erroneous Acts 28 Position on that, and thinking) 'Exactly Brock! - THAT IS the ACTUAL Acts 9 Position on that!'

And this is one of the very things those so called MADs on here whom I have referred to as ALMOST 28ers, and Hybrids, have refused or been unable, to see.

The parroted interpretation of STP and heir (and various of their pals on here) on Galations 3 and 4 is straight out of Welch and Bullinger.

Their erroneous view on this is that similar to Welch and Bullinger.

The fact is that, that that allegory in chapter 4 is just that - an allegory meant to illustrate to the Galatians the error of those Judaizers of whom Paul also wrote...

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Paul was NOT asserting that the Galatians were somehow a part of Abraham's covenants of promise (as both the Hybrids on here and the Acts 28ers, in general, wrongly assert).

Paul even went on to re-assert a Mystery Truth...

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Good post, DP.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[Danoh]

Hi and the word COMMANDMENT / DIATAGMA can also be translated DECREE and there are 354 of them written by Paul and the first one is 1 Cor 14:37 !!

Robert C Brock wrote a book on this subject and I have one !!

dan p

What was the name of it? I know I read it.

Was that the one about real Christianity?

Also, didn't he feature a segment of it in an issue of his JPD?

Thanks.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[Danoh]

Whoop - there comes that bigot Musti, with his conspiracy nonsense as his deflection of the obvious - that he has no actual answer to these Galatians 3 and 4 issues his pals parrot the Acts 28er error of.

Even as he talks of his recent selling out to a Baptist assembly just so he can have an assembly; due to his obvioous incompetence.

Not a peep from his pals on that one.

Thank God for Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

7:

1. Adamic Covenant
2. Noahic Covenant
3. Abrahamic Covenant Part 1
4. Abrahamic Covenant Part 2
5. Mosaic Covenant
6. Davidic Covenant
7. New Covenant

 

[DAN P]

What was the name of it? I know I read it.

Was that the one about real Christianity?

Also, didn't he feature a segment of it in an issue of his JPD?

Thanks.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Hi and Robert C Brock wrote a 96 page booklet called THE COMMANDS OF CHRIST , for christian Living an exposition of the bible's Second Set of Commandments and last month . I talked to his wife , and she is still printings his booklets and documents 377 commands !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Whoop - there comes that bigot Musti, with his conspiracy nonsense as his deflection of the obvious - that he has no actual answer to these Galatians 3 and 4 issues his pals parrot the Acts 28er error of.

Even as he talks of his recent selling out to a Baptist assembly just so he can have an assembly; due to his obvioous incompetence.

Not a peep from his pals on that one.

Thank God for Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

Hi and when our So Baptist shut down , I attended a Calvary Baptist instead of driving 80 mile round trip to a Grace Church !!

But I ended going there , when they booted me from their church !!

We use to have Acts 2 , and Acts 13 and even some Acts 28 er !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

So we are under law?




Yep, that's where I got it.

Hi and even during Paul's earthly ministry , Israel was approx 40 years to be set aside as 2 Cor 3:13-15 says and that is WHY Paul could not baptize , because Israel and it's ORDINANCES , like the Sabbath , Tongues , and BAPTISM , and REPENTANCE as Israel and the Law were all set aside !!

dan p

 

[Tambora]

Whoop - there comes that bigot Musti,

:chuckle:
Musty has not posted in this thread, igmo.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Hi to all and we know that there are at least 4 covenants , the ABRAHAMIC , the Palestian , the Davidic , and the New Covenant !!

Two covenants: Works and Grace.
Three, if you want to include the Covenant of Redemption within the Triune Godhead.

Spoiler

Man stands in specific relations to God by means of covenant and headship. In Adam under the covenant of works we are accounted as covenant breakers but in Christ under the covenant of grace we are accounted covenant keepers. Romans 5:12-21 articulates this with such clarity that it cannot be contradicted without perverting the plain meaning of words.

The Pauline two Adam construction, upon which covenant theology is so firmly founded, only speaks of two heads, and thus only allows for two covenants.

The covenant of works was made with Adam, and in him with all his seed. The covenant being made with Adam, as a public person, not for himself only, but for his posterity; all mankind descending from him by ordinary generation, sinned in him, and fell with him in that first transgression. See: Acts 17:26; Gen. 2:16-17; Rom. 5:12-20; 1 Cor. 15:21-22.

The covenant of grace was made with Christ, (Gal. 3:16; Rom. 5:15-21; Isa. 53:10-11) and in him with all the elect. His grace is revealed in the covenant of grace by God freely providing and making available to sinners a mediator and through him life and salvation. God uses faith as the only way for sinners to become united to him. He promises and gives his Holy Spirit to all his elect in order to bring about this faith in them along with all the other saving graces and in order to make it possible for them to be holy and obedient, as proof of the truth of their faith and thankfulness to God and as the way he has established for them to be saved. See: Gen. 3:15; Isa. 42:6; John 6:27; 1 John 5:11-12; John 3:16; John 1:12; Prov. 1:23; 2 Cor. 4:13; Gal. 5:22-23; Ezek. 36:27; Jas. 2:18, 22; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Eph. 2:10.

We do not speak of a covenant made with Adam and a separate covenant made with his seed. It is the transgression of Adam which is imputed to the seed. Likewise we should not speak of a covenant made with Christ and a separate covenant made with the elect. It is the righteousness of Christ which is imputed to the elect. See Heb. 13:20, 21; by the terms of the one everlasting covenant Christ was raised from the dead and believers are made perfect in every good work.

Thus we can state that by the arrangement of the one covenant, works, Adam and his posterity are condemned; by arrangement of the other covenant, grace, Christ and His elect are justified.

In Galatians 3:16 the apostle explicitly says that Christ is the seed contemplated in the covenant made with Abraham. He is likewise the seed of the promise made to David. In all the promises of the Old Testament Christ is preached as coming Redeemer. As the fathers trust in the promises they were engrafted into Christ, and hence into the covenant of grace.

It is quite clear, when stated in its biblical character, that the elect were "contracted for" not "contracted with" in the covenant of grace. Christ is their Mediator and Surety. Those terms indicate that man is not a party to this covenant, but merely a recipient of Christ's undertaking for them. Hence the NT uses the word diatheke instead of suntheke.

The history of redemption is the history of the outworking of these two covenants.

All others, when properly considered, are various administrations of Works and Grace. For example,

Mosaic Covenant

1. Some would have it a Covenant of Works, and yet will not have it opposite to the Covenant of Grace.
2. Some would have it a Covenant of grace, but more legally dispensed.
3. Some again would have it mixed Covenant, mixed of the Covenant of Nature, and of Grace.
4. Some again would have it a subservient Covenant; a Covenant given to them in way of subservience to the Gospel and Grace.
5. And others would have it no Covenant, but rather the repetition of the Covenant of works made with man in the Innocency. And that God in giving of the law, did but repeat the Covenant under which we did, and do stand, till we come over to Christ…And this God did with merciful purposes, to drive us out of ourselves; and to bring us over unto Christ.

Dispensationalism is a fundamental rejection of the covenant theology that undergirds all of the Reformed and Reformed Baptist confessions. It was developed in conscious opposition to the Reformed confessional perspective on redemptive history.

For deeper study:
http://rscottclark.org/2012/09/theses-on-covenant-theology/
http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/Bible/cov_theo.html
http://rscottclark.org/2001/09/a-brief-history-of-covenant-theology/

Resources:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/covenant-theology/

AMR

 

[Right Divider]

Dispensationalism is a fundamental rejection of the covenant theology that undergirds all of the Reformed and Reformed Baptist confessions. It was developed in conscious opposition to the Reformed confessional perspective on redemptive history.

Dispensationalism actually believes the Bible and does not need to "game the system".

 

[john w]

Two covenants: Works and Grace.
Three, if you want to include the Covenant of Redemption within the Triune Godhead.

No such thing as "the Covenant of Redemption"-you made it up, winged it.

Next up: You "covenantal proponents" will spam "Covenant of Works," another unbiblical, made up "doctrine."

 

[DAN P]

Two covenants: Works and Grace.
Three, if you want to include the Covenant of Redemption within the Triune Godhead.

Spoiler

Man stands in specific relations to God by means of covenant and headship. In Adam under the covenant of works we are accounted as covenant breakers but in Christ under the covenant of grace we are accounted covenant keepers. Romans 5:12-21 articulates this with such clarity that it cannot be contradicted without perverting the plain meaning of words.

The Pauline two Adam construction, upon which covenant theology is so firmly founded, only speaks of two heads, and thus only allows for two covenants.

The covenant of works was made with Adam, and in him with all his seed. The covenant being made with Adam, as a public person, not for himself only, but for his posterity; all mankind descending from him by ordinary generation, sinned in him, and fell with him in that first transgression. See: Acts 17:26; Gen. 2:16-17; Rom. 5:12-20; 1 Cor. 15:21-22.

The covenant of grace was made with Christ, (Gal. 3:16; Rom. 5:15-21; Isa. 53:10-11) and in him with all the elect. His grace is revealed in the covenant of grace by God freely providing and making available to sinners a mediator and through him life and salvation. God uses faith as the only way for sinners to become united to him. He promises and gives his Holy Spirit to all his elect in order to bring about this faith in them along with all the other saving graces and in order to make it possible for them to be holy and obedient, as proof of the truth of their faith and thankfulness to God and as the way he has established for them to be saved. See: Gen. 3:15; Isa. 42:6; John 6:27; 1 John 5:11-12; John 3:16; John 1:12; Prov. 1:23; 2 Cor. 4:13; Gal. 5:22-23; Ezek. 36:27; Jas. 2:18, 22; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Eph. 2:10.

We do not speak of a covenant made with Adam and a separate covenant made with his seed. It is the transgression of Adam which is imputed to the seed. Likewise we should not speak of a covenant made with Christ and a separate covenant made with the elect. It is the righteousness of Christ which is imputed to the elect. See Heb. 13:20, 21; by the terms of the one everlasting covenant Christ was raised from the dead and believers are made perfect in every good work.

Thus we can state that by the arrangement of the one covenant, works, Adam and his posterity are condemned; by arrangement of the other covenant, grace, Christ and His elect are justified.

In Galatians 3:16 the apostle explicitly says that Christ is the seed contemplated in the covenant made with Abraham. He is likewise the seed of the promise made to David. In all the promises of the Old Testament Christ is preached as coming Redeemer. As the fathers trust in the promises they were engrafted into Christ, and hence into the covenant of grace.

It is quite clear, when stated in its biblical character, that the elect were "contracted for" not "contracted with" in the covenant of grace. Christ is their Mediator and Surety. Those terms indicate that man is not a party to this covenant, but merely a recipient of Christ's undertaking for them. Hence the NT uses the word diatheke instead of suntheke.

The history of redemption is the history of the outworking of these two covenants.

All others, when properly considered, are various administrations of Works and Grace. For example,

Mosaic Covenant

1. Some would have it a Covenant of Works, and yet will not have it opposite to the Covenant of Grace.
2. Some would have it a Covenant of grace, but more legally dispensed.
3. Some again would have it mixed Covenant, mixed of the Covenant of Nature, and of Grace.
4. Some again would have it a subservient Covenant; a Covenant given to them in way of subservience to the Gospel and Grace.
5. And others would have it no Covenant, but rather the repetition of the Covenant of works made with man in the Innocency. And that God in giving of the law, did but repeat the Covenant under which we did, and do stand, till we come over to Christ…And this God did with merciful purposes, to drive us out of ourselves; and to bring us over unto Christ.

Dispensationalism is a fundamental rejection of the covenant theology that undergirds all of the Reformed and Reformed Baptist confessions. It was developed in conscious opposition to the Reformed confessional perspective on redemptive history.

For deeper study:
http://rscottclark.org/2012/09/theses-on-covenant-theology/
http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/Bible/cov_theo.html
http://rscottclark.org/2001/09/a-brief-history-of-covenant-theology/

Resources:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/covenant-theology/

AMR

Hi and in Gal 2:16 the Law of Moses is called WORKS !!

Grace is never called WORKS !!

Since COVENANT / DIATHEKE can be translated by , COVENANT , WILL , COMPACT , ARRANGERMENT , where is GRACE / CHARIS , called a covenant ??

The Greek word OIKONOMIA / DISPENSATION is found in Rom 16:25 and 26 and in Col 1:25 and 26 and in Eph 3:1-10 and also in 1 Tim 1:4 !!

I would like for you to say , with a verse where the GRACE of God began ?

If you say in Genesis , than how were people save from Adam to Moses as written in Rom 5:14 ?

dan p

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

If you say in Genesis , than how were people save from Adam to Moses as written in Rom 5:14 ?

Well at least your response comes a bit afterwards of my own, so I am hopeful you at least took the time to review the resources I provided above versus the ready, fire, aim approaches of some others.

When dispensation is used in Scripture it refers to an administration of a covenant.

In Romans 5:14, which is connected to the preceding clause, that those who without the law did not impute sin to themselves. They did not sin after the similarity of Adam's sin as they did not know, as did Adam, the will of God made known to them by an oracle (Moses). God forbade Adam to touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To those before Moses, no command had been given by God other than the testimony of their own conscience. Paul implies that just because of the difference between Adam and his posterity that these persons were not somehow exempt from condemnation.

Just as all those in the Old Testament, those that were born anew were done so by the efficacious grace of the power of the Holy Spirit granting them faith in Our Lord via the types and shadows.

The Covenant of Grace begins in our history with the promises made after the Fall of mankind, Genesis 3:15. The unfolding of the one eternal Covenant of Grace can also be seen in its major administrations:

1. Covenant of Nature made with Noah (Genesis 6:18; 9:9-17).
2. Abrahamic Covenant made with Abraham (Genesis 15, 17).
3. Covenant of Law made with Israel via Moses (Exodus 19-24).
4. Davidic Royal Covenant made with David (2 Samuel 7; Psalm 89, 132).
5. New Covenant established by Christ (Jeremiah 31; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; Hebrews 8:8-13). The New Covenant arrives in three stages: Christ’s first comings, the unfolding history before Christ’s Second Coming, and consummation of Christ’s kingdom.

New Covenant in the New Testament administration represents the ultimate expression of God’s single eternal Covenant of Grace with sinners (Hebrews 13:20). That said, the road was the same on which believers in the Old and the New Testaments walked, but the light in which they walked was different. So in a sense we can say that those experiencing the New Covenant have better promises (Hebrews 8:6), a better sacrifice (Hebrews 9:23), a better High Priest with a better sanctuary (Hebrews 7:26-8:13), and a better hope than what was found in the former explicit Old Testament expressions of the Covenant of Grace.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No such thing as "the Covenant of Redemption"-you made it up, winged it.

Chapter 7, Volume 1
http://www.abrakel.com/p/christians-reasonable-service.html

Apparently folks have been, er, "winging it" for a few hundred years. :AMR1:

Tolle lege.

AMR

 

[DAN P]

Well at least your response comes a bit afterwards of my own, so I am hopeful you at least took the time to review the resources I provided above versus the ready, fire, aim approaches of some others.

When dispensation is used in Scripture it refers to an administration of a covenant.

In Romans 5:14, which is connected to the preceding clause, that those who without the law did not impute sin to themselves. They did not sin after the similarity of Adam's sin as they did not know, as did Adam, the will of God made known to them by an oracle (Moses). God forbade Adam to touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To those before Moses, no command had been given by God other than the testimony of their own conscience. Paul implies that just because of the difference between Adam and his posterity that these persons were not somehow exempt from condemnation.

Just as all those in the Old Testament, those that were born anew were done so by the efficacious grace of the power of the Holy Spirit granting them faith in Our Lord via the types and shadows.

The Covenant of Grace begins in our history with the promises made after the Fall of mankind, Genesis 3:15. The unfolding of the one eternal Covenant of Grace can also be seen in its major administrations:

1. Covenant of Nature made with Noah (Genesis 6:18; 9:9-17).
2. Abrahamic Covenant made with Abraham (Genesis 15, 17).
3. Covenant of Law made with Israel via Moses (Exodus 19-24).
4. Davidic Royal Covenant made with David (2 Samuel 7; Psalm 89, 132).
5. New Covenant established by Christ (Jeremiah 31; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; Hebrews 8:8-13). The New Covenant arrives in three stages: Christ’s first comings, the unfolding history before Christ’s Second Coming, and consummation of Christ’s kingdom.

New Covenant in the New Testament administration represents the ultimate expression of God’s single eternal Covenant of Grace with sinners (Hebrews 13:20). That said, the road was the same on which believers in the Old and the New Testaments walked, but the light in which they walked was different. So in a sense we can say that those experiencing the New Covenant have better promises (Hebrews 8:6), a better sacrifice (Hebrews 9:23), a better High Priest with a better sanctuary (Hebrews 7:26-8:13), and a better hope than what was found in the former explicit Old Testament expressions of the Covenant of Grace.

AMR

Hi and thanks for your reply , but DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA does not mean administration , for it means OIKOS / HOUSE and NOMOS / means LAW so it really means HOUSE /LAW !!

The house rules are what Paul preached in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

Paul had to FIRST had to be given the MYSTERY before Paul could administrate IT !!

The EVERLASTING COVENANT in 1 Chron 16:17 was given to Israel and not to the Body of Christ !!

dan p