Holiness Theology and the Gospel

[Robert Pate]

People that have embraced a holiness theology have little to no use for the Gospel and justification by faith. Many are Paul haters because this is what Paul taught. Paul plainly taught that all men are sinners and are justified by faith apart from works and obedience to the law or the commandments of Jesus.

"As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" 1 Timothy 1:15

Many of the prophets and patriarch's confessed that they were unworthy sinners. Isaiah wrote,

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness is as filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

In spite of all of these scriptures the holiness people still maintain that they can please God and keep the commandments of Jesus. Many of the holiness people are Pentecostals, while others are Nazarenes or Catholics. Regardless they are all rejecters of the Gospel and justification by faith. Then the question arises, can one reject the Gospel and justification by faith and still be saved? I think not. What they are, are counterfeits. They act like Christians they talk like Christians, but they do not posses the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth, John 16:13.

One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to convict the believer that he is a sinner, Romans 3:19. The whole world stands guilty before God's Holy Law. Both believers and unbelievers. This is why we need to be saved and justified by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation is totally and completely outside of us and is only found in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

In the Gospel, Jesus clothes himself in our humanity and becomes one with us, but not one of us. In our name and on our behalf Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. He does this for our justification. We are justified because Jesus fulfilled the law for us. We can't fulfill it because we are sinners, saved sinners. That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world. This is why,

"He has made him to be sins for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:23.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. God now sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We who are saved have been saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus and have no confidence in our flesh, Philippians 3:3.

 

[jsanford108]

What Catholic's actually teach and believe:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1996:

Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.


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[jsanford108]

Also, if works mean nothing, then why did God/Christ ever give us commandments? That would be superfluous to faith, if works merit nothing.


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[jamie]

Also, if works mean nothing, then why did God/Christ ever give us commandments? That would be superfluous to faith, if works merit nothing.

:thumb: Jesus tells his church repeatedly in Revelation 2 & 3 that he knows our works and offers advice.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

People that have embraced a holiness theology have little to no use for the Gospel and justification by faith. Many are Paul haters because this is what Paul taught. Paul plainly taught that all men are sinners and are justified by faith apart from works and obedience to the law or the commandments of Jesus.

Hey Robert,

Much of what you post is true. But it is almost always mixed with untruths because you tend to use scripture selectively instead of looking at the whole of scripture and getting the whole picture.

For example:

"As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

Umm....except for John the Baptist's parents (at least), right?:

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." (Luke 1:6 KJV)

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

And yet there are probably thousands of people who are born into this world, and then die without ever having committed an actual sin. Because they died before they were even capable of committing an actual sin. Little babies and severely handicapped people, for example.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" 1 Timothy 1:15

Amen.

Many of the prophets and patriarch's confessed that they were unworthy sinners. Isaiah wrote,

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness is as filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

And yet some in the O.T. were righteous...

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." (Hebrews 11:4 KJV)

...even according to Jesus Himself:

"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." (Matthew 23:35)

In spite of all of these scriptures the holiness people still maintain that they can please God and keep the commandments of Jesus.

In spite of a few carefully selected verses? There is a bigger picture, Robert. Which includes other verses that speak to the topic. They need to be considered as well.

As far as keeping the commandments of Jesus, didn't He Himself say:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Matthew 28:19-20)

Observing those things that Jesus commanded is probably what you would disparagingly refer to as "religious acts."

Many of the holiness people are Pentecostals, while others are Nazarenes or Catholics. Regardless they are all rejecters of the Gospel and justification by faith. Then the question arises, can one reject the Gospel and justification by faith and still be saved? I think not. What they are, are counterfeits. They act like Christians they talk like Christians, but they do not posses the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth, John 16:13.

One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to convict the believer that he is a sinner, Romans 3:19. The whole world stands guilty before God's Holy Law. Both believers and unbelievers. This is why we need to be saved and justified by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation is totally and completely outside of us and is only found in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

In the Gospel, Jesus clothes himself in our humanity and becomes one with us, but not one of us. In our name and on our behalf Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. He does this for our justification. We are justified because Jesus fulfilled the law for us. We can't fulfill it because we are sinners, saved sinners. That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world. This is why,

"He has made him to be sins for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:23.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. God now sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We who are saved have been saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus and have no confidence in our flesh, Philippians 3:3.

I'm quite certain that most Pentecostals, Nazarenes, Catholics, and others are well aware of their sinfulness and that salvation comes to us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

There are two kinds of righteousness. There is the righteousness of men and then there is the righteousness of God. Religious people posses the righteousness of men. But no one posses the righteousness of God, except Jesus Christ. So, when Paul says that "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. He meant it.

 

[Robert Pate]

What Catholic's actually teach and believe:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1996:

Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

No one is a partaker of the divine nature of God, except Jesus Christ. You don't believe what the Bible says about the nature of man.

 

[daqq]

No one is a partaker of the divine nature of God, except Jesus Christ. You don't believe what the Bible says about the nature of man.

2 Peter 1:2-11 ASV
2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;
4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge;
6 and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness;
7 and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love.
8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.
10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:
11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Elohim has granted unto us all things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of him that called us. We are admonished in the above passage to add onto it from our own part all diligence, and in our faith we are admonished to supply virtue; and in our virtue knowledge; and in our knowledge self-control; and in our self-control patience; and in our patience godliness; and in our godliness brotherly kindness; and in our brotherly kindness love. For if we have these things, and they abound, they cause us not to be idle nor unfruitful toward the knowledge of our Master the Messiah: and after saying these things the passage states that the one who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from old sins. Therefore, because of these things, we are admonished to give all the more diligence to make our calling and election sure: for if we do these things, we shall never stumble, for in this manner a way of entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Master and Savior shall be richly supplied to us. This passage moreover states that we may become partakers of the divine nature through the things mentioned in the beginning of the passage, (including receiving the promises and escaping the corruption that is in the world by way of lust). And if one says these things do not apply to himself or herself because of the name of the author? We know that is nothing more than an excuse used by dividers of the brethren: and everyone reaps what they sow.

 

[jsanford108]

No one is a partaker of the divine nature of God, except Jesus Christ. You don't believe what the Bible says about the nature of man.

All the Apostles, and Christ Himself, disagree with you. (Evidenced in Hebrews, Peter's Epistles, Colossians, the Gospels, Revelation, etc)

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

No one is a partaker of the divine nature of God, except Jesus Christ. You don't believe what the Bible says about the nature of man.

Dear Robert,

What you stated above is contrary to what the Bible says:

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4 KJV)

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

There are two kinds of righteousness. There is the righteousness of men and then there is the righteousness of God. Religious people posses the righteousness of men. But no one posses the righteousness of God, except Jesus Christ. So, when Paul says that "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. He meant it.

You have a tendency to rail against religious people, Robert. According to you, they possess the righteousness of men.

Yet Abel, Zacharias, Elisabeth, Abraham etc. all possessed the righteousness of men and were commended for it.

Maybe it is time for you to stop bashing religious people?

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Dear Robert,

What you stated above is contrary to what the Bible says:

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4 KJV)

Peace.

We have not received any of that yet. You are trying to bring into the now, that which is in the future.

What you are now is, "The chief of all sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

 

[jamie]

Hey Robert,

Much of what you post is true. But it is almost always mixed with untruths because you tend to use scripture selectively instead of looking at the whole of scripture and getting the whole picture.

For example:

"As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one." (Romans 3:10)

Paul said, "As it is written."

Robert has been told many times where it is written, but he doesn't care.

So where is it written?

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works,
There is none who does good." (Psalm 14:1)

"The fool has said in his heart, '“There is no God.'
They are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity,
There is none who does good." (Psalm 53:1)

Robert probably thinks Paul made that up. He will continue his misquote.

Robert is impervious to correction, he doesn't care about truth.

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul said, "As it is written."

Robert has been told many times where it is written, but he doesn't care.

So where is it written?

"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works,
There is none who does good." (Psalm 14:1)

"The fool has said in his heart, '“There is no God.'
They are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity,
There is none who does good." (Psalm 53:1)

Robert probably thinks Paul made that up. He will continue his misquote.

Robert is impervious to correction, he doesn't care about truth.

Paul frequently quoted the Old Testament prophets and patriarch's, that does not mean that Paul was a liar.

The scripture still stands, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

 

[jamie]

Paul frequently quoted the Old Testament prophets and patriarch's, that does not mean that Paul was a liar.

The scripture still stands, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

Yes, Robert, anyone who claims there is no God is by definition not righteous.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:4)

No, Robert, that does not mean Christ abolished righteousness.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

We have not received any of that yet. You are trying to bring into the now, that which is in the future.

What you are now is, "The chief of all sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

I disagree.

I think you might even disagree for you have repeatedly said:

"God now sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10."

Being "In Christ" to Paul means sharing in the life of Christ which means "partaking of the divine nature".

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Romans 8:10-11 KJV)

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: ..." (Galatians 2:20 KJV)

I agree with you that we are not perfected yet as we will be in the future before entering heaven.

But Paul shows pretty clearly that we are "partaking of the divine nature" right now by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit living within us.

Peace.

 

[glorydaz]

Also, if works mean nothing, then why did God/Christ ever give us commandments? That would be superfluous to faith, if works merit nothing.

God gave us commandments so we would know what sin is - we would see our guilt, and, therefore, our need for God's mercy and GRACE.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

 

[Robert Pate]

I disagree.

I think you might even disagree for you have repeatedly said:

"God now sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10."

Being "In Christ" to Paul means sharing in the life of Christ which means "partaking of the divine nature".

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Romans 8:10-11 KJV)

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: ..." (Galatians 2:20 KJV)

I agree with you that we are not perfected yet as we will be in the future before entering heaven.

But Paul shows pretty clearly that we are "partaking of the divine nature" right now by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit living within us.

Peace.

The Holy Spirit does not make us holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will show you that fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23.

We see ourselves and others as sinners, but God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. However, we are not there yet. This is why Paul reminds us that, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are waiting to be glorified, but we are not there yet.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The Holy Spirit does not make us holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will show you that fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23.

We see ourselves and others as sinners, but God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. However, we are not there yet. This is why Paul reminds us that, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are waiting to be glorified, but we are not there yet.

Well, I'm not gonna keep going back and forth on this.

But if Jesus Christ is living within us, I just don't see how that is not "partaking of the divine nature."

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this is all.

Peace.

 

[glorydaz]

The Holy Spirit does not make us holy. If anything the Holy Spirit will show you that fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23.

We see ourselves and others as sinners, but God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. However, we are not there yet. This is why Paul reminds us that, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are waiting to be glorified, but we are not there yet.

The quote from Paul about "none righteous" is from the Psalm that speaks of the unbeliever...the fool who says in his heart there is no God. The same Psalm speaks of God being in the generation of the righteous.