Hello from a non-religious new person

[reasonator]

I’m looking forward to some good discussions in this forum, and to getting to know some of the regular posters -- and becoming one, myself.

Some background:

I’m non-religious, but used to be a Christian. I realize that some may be skeptical about how “Christian” I actually was. To use some Christian terms, I had what I believed to be a personal relationship with Jesus, and had a salvation experience and commitment of my life as a disciple of Christ. I was also baptized in my local church. Later in life, I felt a calling to the ministry. I attended a well-established seminary and graduated with a master’s of divinity in Christian theology in 2004. I was particularly interested (and still am) in koine Greek, textual criticism, and theology. I taught Sunday schools, taught youth at discipleship weekend retreats, taught singles and young adults, helped lead worship for Sunday school classes and Christian get-togethers, and delivered sermons in churches when asked to. By any account, I was as Christian (with a personal faith and assurance of salvation) as they get.

Shortly before I graduated, I had some misgivings about the modern Church, and how churches are often operated more as businesses and less as I thought they were intended to be. I also felt most Christians had missed the boat on eschatology. But that for another time. I still had a personal faith, but I had no desire to minister in an official capacity at the time of graduation. So, I went to work in a secular field, as a journalist, and do so to this day.

About a year after my graduation from seminary, I began to question my own faith and the reasons for believing. I realized how easy it is for humans to be convinced of supernatural events, but recognized that there were a lot of problems and inconsistencies with belief in the supernatural and with belief in the God Christianity and belief in other religions. After a long time of reflection, I gave up all religious belief. I’ve never been happier or at more peace with myself than I am now.

Nice to meet everyone.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[fool]

Howdy

 

[Bright Raven]

Welcome, looking forward to some discussion.

 

[alwight]

I’m looking forward to some good discussions in this forum, and to getting to know some of the regular posters -- and becoming one, myself.

Hi reasonator,
Unlike you I've never had any kind of religious belief myself, so I've no real idea what it's like to lose it, do you miss it sometimes?

 

[reasonator]

Hi reasonator,
Unlike you I've never had any kind of religious belief myself, so I've no real idea what it's like to lose it, do you miss it sometimes?

No, not really. I did initially after I became non-religious. I missed singing praise songs, and I missed the fellowship with other people in church, and I missed regular discussions about theology and the Bible, but I guess that's where this forum will be useful. But other than the ability to have regular, interesting theological discussions, I don't miss anything about my former faith.

 

[voltaire]

Why did you believe in the christian God in in the first place?

 

[reasonator]

Why did you believe in the christian God in in the first place?

I believed the story and theology behind it. I believed that it made sense that all of mankind was fallen and imperfect, and it made sense that if God existed, then God would be so holy as to not be able to have true communion with something that is imperfect and unholy, and it made sense that the only way to satisfy God's own holy standard, was for God itself to offer himself up as propitiation for sin in the form of a once-for-all sacrifice for whomever accepts it, and only through that sacrifice, with the atoning work of Christ, could we have true fellowship with God.

I also believed in the cosmological, teleological, and moral arguments, as well as the transcendental argument, and believed in the historical argument for the resurrection of Jesus.

Additionally, I felt that I had a personal relationship with Christ, and felt that I had a personal experience of repentance, acceptance of him, and salvation.

Obviously, I find fault with all of those ideas, now.

If you were asking me in order to gauge just how Christian I actually was, or if I just thought I was Christian by title, then I hope that answers your question.

 

[Rusha]

Welcome to TOL!

 

[voltaire]

Obviously, I find fault with all of those ideas, now.

--reasonator

Why didn't you find fault with all those ideas at the start of your faith?

If you were asking me in order to gauge just how Christian I actually was, or if I just thought I was Christian by title, then I hope that answers your question.

Many people become Christians and believe or think they believe whatever they are told. The belief is superficial and may seem very real to the new christian. You were not made aware of all the reasons you should be skeptical in the beginning. True belief in something takes time and superficial belief can happen quickly.

 

[reasonator]

Obviously, I find fault with all of those ideas, now.

--reasonator

Why didn't you find fault with all those ideas at the start of your faith?

Because I didn't think through all the issues then as well as I do now. Also, there was a psychological impetus to keep me believing in my faith, because I had a strong Christian friend base.

One thing I've learned is that people tend to give in to tribalism when it comes to things like sports teams, hometown pride, national pride, and worldviews. When you feel like you belong to a certain tribe, it is difficult to seriously and honestly entertain arguments and facts contrary to that tribalism and worldview. This is of course true also of all worldviews, including non-religious ones. But, I believe it was this tribalism, in part, that helped encourage my belief at the time.

 

[reasonator]

Many people become Christians and believe or think they believe whatever they are told. The belief is superficial and may seem very real to the new christian. You were not made aware of all the reasons you should be skeptical in the beginning. True belief in something takes time and superficial belief can happen quickly.

I was a Christian, with a serious and real belief, for 11 years (from about 18 to 29). I attended and graduated from seminary with a master's in divinity. I was the real thing. Likewise, I did intense apologetics study as part of my seminary coursework, all while I believed as a Christian. I was not ignorant to the arguments or writings of atheists and others.

I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. I, however, am not one of those people. I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not.

 

[Cleekster]

I fail to see how you could experience all of those things and end up with a "God is dead" kind of mentality....i hope in the future you will enlighten us to that degree.

Not trying to offend you but coming from my own post-Christian viewpoint i realize that my superficial belief in Christianity was equal parts Group Think and "puppy love"....but at the time i thought it was the real deal.

but anyway...Welcome.

 

[griffinsavard]

I was a Christian, with a serious and real belief, for 11 years (from about 18 to 29). I attended and graduated from seminary with a master's in divinity. I was the real thing. Likewise, I did intense apologetics study as part of my seminary coursework, all while I believed as a Christian. I was not ignorant to the arguments or writings of atheists and others.

I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. I, however, am not one of those people. I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not.

Hello :cheers:

I would like to ask you to elaborate on what doctrinal issues you are facing concerning Christianity.

I for one was not raised Christian and would of never accepted it if I didn't do my own biblical research and find out that the doctrine of eternal torment is biblically unsound.

I also feel you on the eschatological part. So many 'christians' believe in a secret rapture doctrine and I can't find what they base it on.

Some more of my probs with fundamental Christianity is wars and how Christians are encouraged to be soilders. And the racial profiling issue.

I would also like to say that Christ said 'follow me' he never said 'follow my people'. I find most christians to be biblically shallow and ignorant.

thanks

 

[John Mortimer]

I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. I, however, am not one of those people. I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not.

Repentance with regard to what, exactly?

Acceptance of what or whom?

Devotion to God, or a mental image of God?

 

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by reasonator

Because I didn't think through all the issues then as well as I do now. Also, there was a psychological impetus to keep me believing in my faith, because I had a strong Christian friend base.

One thing I've learned is that people tend to give in to tribalism when it comes to things like sports teams, hometown pride, national pride, and worldviews. When you feel like you belong to a certain tribe, it is difficult to seriously and honestly entertain arguments and facts contrary to that tribalism and worldview. This is of course true also of all worldviews, including non-religious ones. But, I believe it was this tribalism, in part, that helped encourage my belief at the time. You were very honest here.


I was a Christian, with a serious and real belief, for 11 years (from about 18 to 29). Do you know what a Christian is? You were serious about what? Why? What exactly did you believe?


I attended and graduated from seminary with a master's in divinity. Why? Because you thought that was the christian thing to do?

I was the real thing. How would you know if you were the real thing or not? What is a christian?

Likewise, I did intense apologetics study as part of my seminary coursework, all while I believed as a Christian. I was not ignorant to the arguments or writings of atheists and others.
Then, why did you reject their reasonings and writings? Was it that sense of tribalism you referred to earlier? Was it because they you had a very good rational reason to reject them? Did you even seriously consider the merits of their arguments?


I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. How can you have a personal relationship with an entity that you have no rational reason to believe even exists? From what I have heard, you never took the time to even consider the rationality for even his existence.
Anybody can believe in imaginary friends, that doesn't mean they have a real relationship with the very real creator of the universe. It is easy to repent of what others tell you is wrong and feel acceptance from an imaginary friend and think you are receiving acceptance from the actual creator of the universe.

I, however, am not one of those people. It is true that you never just went along for the ride and did all the christian things to do. You actually had a sincere relationship with a figment of your imagination.

I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not. People can have very real subjective psychological experiences. Calling those subjective feelings and psychological experiences a real Christian experience is unwarranted though.

 

[voltaire]

Originally posted by John Mortimer

Repentance with regard to what, exactly?

Acceptance of what or whom?

Devotion to God, or a mental image of God?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Town Heretic]

I’m looking forward to some good discussions in this forum, and to getting to know some of the regular posters -- and becoming one, myself.

That's the spirit. :thumb:

I’m non-religious, but used to be a Christian. I realize that some may be skeptical about how “Christian” I actually was.

Why? The answer doesn't seem particularly difficult to arrive at, given.

To use some Christian terms, I had what I believed to be a personal relationship with Jesus, and had a salvation experience and commitment of my life as a disciple of Christ. I was also baptized in my local church.

Then there's a problem with your narrative. I'll come to it in a moment, by way of illustration.

....By any account, I was as Christian (with a personal faith and assurance of salvation) as they get.

Any? A moment more then...:think:

Shortly before I graduated, I had some misgivings about the modern Church, and how churches are often operated more as businesses and less as I thought they were intended to be. I also felt most Christians had missed the boat on eschatology.

Isn't that a sort of proud position to take on something of that importance? And even more troubling given you didn't then appear to involve yourself in correcting (or seeing if your notion needed it) the larger Body of the faithful to whom you were rather obligated.

About a year after my graduation from seminary, I began to question my own faith and the reasons for believing.

Right. Now consider this: let's say you're married and you love your wife. You're faithful and trusting and have been since the day you married. Now then, one day I happen by. I'm divorced, but I tell you that I loved my wife as well, relate that I fell in love, that I was wed and devoted and if anything had qualms about the seriousness with which my brethren approached the institution.

Then, one day I slept with my secretary. lain: How kindred would you feel?

After a long time of reflection, I gave up all religious belief. I’ve never been happier or at more peace with myself than I am now.

Then I'd say you're in a state of irrational denial, given what must flow from your present understanding and what cannot.

Nice to meet everyone.

:e4e: Welcome aboard.

 

[Town Heretic]

I was a Christian, with a serious and real belief, for 11 years (from about 18 to 29). I attended and graduated from seminary with a master's in divinity. I was the real thing. Likewise, I did intense apologetics study as part of my seminary coursework, all while I believed as a Christian. I was not ignorant to the arguments or writings of atheists and others.

I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. I, however, am not one of those people. I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not.

Were you this proud and condescending to the faithful you refused to serve after graduating from seminary? :think: I think I've found your difficulty and the thing that you reserved between you and that experience of God. You poor, rich young ruler you...

 

[bybee]

I was a Christian, with a serious and real belief, for 11 years (from about 18 to 29). I attended and graduated from seminary with a master's in divinity. I was the real thing. Likewise, I did intense apologetics study as part of my seminary coursework, all while I believed as a Christian. I was not ignorant to the arguments or writings of atheists and others.

I realize there are heaps of people who think they are Christian, but in reality have no clue what it's like to "have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ," or to experience true repentance and acceptance and devotion. I, however, am not one of those people. I experienced those things, whether you like to believe that I did or not.

It is highly likely that you are "one of those people".
Many people do have a clue as what constitutes Christian belief.
I like to believe when someone or something is believable. You, at this point, have a way to go.