Heaven

patrick jane

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So call me dumb, but my question is this -


Do our loved ones go to heaven right away when they die ? Do they go directly to be with Christ or stay asleep until the 2nd coming ? Does the soul go to heaven immediately but not the body until Christ returns ?

Are there scriptures that plainly tell us what happens at death ?
 

jamie

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Do our loved ones go to heaven right away when they die ? Do they go directly to be with Christ or stay asleep until the 2nd coming ? Does the soul go to heaven immediately but not the body until Christ returns ?

The term "heaven" with regard to God is the spiritual dimension that envelops our planet. For instance, Matthew uses the term kingdom of heaven instead of the kingdom of God because the Jews even today avoid the word God.

At our last breath the very next instant for us will be the first or second resurrection depending on our relationship with Jesus Christ and the Father.
 

patrick jane

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The term "heaven" with regard to God is the spiritual dimension that envelops our planet. For instance, Matthew uses the term kingdom of heaven instead of the kingdom of God because the Jews even today avoid the word God.

At our last breath the very next instant for us will be the first or second resurrection depending on our relationship with Jesus Christ and the Father.

Thanks, I'm looking for feedback like that -
 

jamie

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My mom wants to know, please answer the questions for her.

Ask her to read Revelation 20 keeping in mind that death frees a person from their sins. This can be by asking the Father to apply Jesus' death to her sins or she can pay the debt herself. It's her choice.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
So our loved ones that passed are not necessarily looking down on us or watching over us.

I really don't think so, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I would hate to think my Grandpa had to look down on me and see all of the turmoil I go through and mistakes I make. I don't see what the point would be.
 

achduke

Active member
My mom wants to know, please answer the questions for her.

Ecclesiastes 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
 

patrick jane

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I really don't think so, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I would hate to think my Grandpa had to look down on me and see all of the turmoil I go through and mistakes I make. I don't see what the point would be.

I agree, but it would be nice to get some help with the lottery from above
 

Jamie Gigliotti

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Paul said it's better to be away fro the body and with the Lord and yet at the end there will be a bodily ressurection. And Jesus told the thief that today you will be with me in paradise. Scripture seems to say the the soul goes either to Heaven or Hell awaiting the end of the age. Our souls do not cease to exist at death.

This is what has been reported by many who have had death experiences and were brought back.
 

jamie

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And Jesus told the thief that today you will be with me in paradise.

The term "today" refers to it being a day of salvation. Jesus was not in paradise that day and no one was with him in the tomb.

...again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” (Hebrews 4:7 NKJV)

For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice... (Psalms 95:7 NKJV)
 

Jamie Gigliotti

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The term "today" refers to it being a day of salvation. Jesus was not in paradise that day and no one was with him in the tomb.

...again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” (Hebrews 4:7 NKJV)

For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice... (Psalms 95:7 NKJV)
That is conjecture. He commended His Spirit. He did not cease to exist for three days.
 

steko

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So call me dumb, but my question is this -


Do our loved ones go to heaven right away when they die ? Do they go directly to be with Christ or stay asleep until the 2nd coming ? Does the soul go to heaven immediately but not the body until Christ returns ?

Are there scriptures that plainly tell us what happens at death ?

Heaven is part of the creation. It did not exist before GOD created it.
GOD did not dwell in heaven before He created it, obviously.
From what I understand, there are three levels which are referred to as 'heaven', one, the realm of our earth's atmosphere, two, the realm of the planets and stars, and three, the realm in which GOD became immanent and established His throne, in which place the Lord Jesus now dwells. I do no understand it as another dimension.

Paul gives us information of the state of deceased believers. He refers to them as 'asleep', which I understand to imply the 'horizontal' temporary state of the physical body, awaiting the future resurrection- anastasia/stand up(verticle).
Since the believer has entered into eternal life at the point of faith in the finished work of Christ, I believe that the conscious 'I' goes to be in the presence of Christ in heaven until they return with Christ to be reunited with the physical body at the resurrection and gathering to meet the Lord in the air.

In the letter to Philipians, Paul discusses his own impending death.
When he says 'to live is Christ', I believe that he means that everything about his existence in the physical body concerns his ministry proclaiming Christ.
When he says, 'to die is gain', I take it that he means that to leave the physical body at that point would mean that he would spiritually go to be into the Lord's presence, otherwise, why would his death at that time be 'gain'? If upon the death of his physical body, he would cease to be consicous(which would essentially mean ceasing to exist altogether as some believe), then how would nonexistence for at least two-thousand years, be 'gain'? And, if we now have eternal life, how could nonexistence in any way be 'life'?

Php 1:20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
Php 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.


I believe that man exists as a mind/body dualism and that the 'mind' is not just the physical brain. The physical brain is the apparatus through which the 'I'....the 'mind' operates in this physical realm.
The following scriptures bear this out, else, what does Paul mean by the term 'I' as living 'in' the flesh? Paul speaks of his 'I' as a separate entity from his flesh as though his 'I' inhabits the flesh.

Php 1:22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.

In the next verses, what is it which he would be departing from and if he departs, where is it that he would then be?

Php 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
Php 1:24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.


Paul says to depart the from the flesh and to be with Christ would be much better for him, but to remain in the flesh would be more beneficial to those he was teaching.

Php 1:25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith,
....................................................................................................

In 2Co 5, Paul uses similar language. He speaks of the physical body as a 'tent', a house, a dwelling place.
There is an ongoing debate regarding a possible temporary spiritual body from heaven supplied to the believer until the future physical resurrection of the corrupted body into the incorruptible. Or, maybe it's not temporary but permanent and will continue as the resurrected body is joined with it in the future. Nevertheless, however the Lord works all of this out, there is no doubt from these verses that Paul speaks about our being clothed with a 'dwelling from heaven'.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
2Co 5:3 inasmuch as we
, having put it on, will not be found naked.


Again, Paul speaks of the 'we' as a separate entity dwelling in 'this tent'. How could 'we' be 'in the tent', if in reality the 'we/I' is the tent.
I don't believe that 'I' am the tent, but that the 'I', which is me, actually dwells in the tent, which is my physical body. This concept is in harmony with Paul's sense in these verses. He goes on to say that believers have been given the Spirit as a pledge that He will bring about the rest of all that He has in store for us.

2Co 5:4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
2Co 5:5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.


Paul goes on to what I consider the clencher.
While the 'we/I' is dwelling in this physical body, the 'we/I' is not in the Lord's manifest presence, but once the believer's physical body dies, the 'I' leave the body and is then at home with the Lord.

2Co 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--
2Co 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight--
2Co 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

....................................................................................................

Peter uses similar language.
He speaks of his 'I' dwelling in the physical body and that dwelling will be laid aside. Why would he speak of his body as a dwelling place for the 'I' if the body in reality was the whole of the 'I' and man was not a mind/body composite? How could Peter speak of his laying aside of his earthly dwelling as a departure if his essence is the earthly dwelling and that there was no more to what Peter is than the earthly dwelling?
If Peter, or Paul, or myself or any other person are nothing more that our physical body then.....none of us are going anywhere at this time.
We will, at our physical death, cease to exist, if that is the case.
That is not eternal life, as I understand it.

2Pe 1:13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder,
2Pe 1:14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
2Pe 1:15 And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
 

Nihilo

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So call me dumb, but my question is this -


Do our loved ones go to heaven right away when they die ? Do they go directly to be with Christ or stay asleep until the 2nd coming ? Does the soul go to heaven immediately but not the body until Christ returns ?

Are there scriptures that plainly tell us what happens at death ?
We are our soul and our body.

When this body stops, our soul continues.

For most of the Church, when we die, we are purged and purified from the temporal consequences of the forgiven sins we've committed temporally in this body. Some go right to heaven, and most of us are purified in purgatory. Those who skip purgatory do so because they have already endured their punishments for forgiven sins in this life and in this body.

The Second Coming is when the resurrection occurs, when we rise from the dead as new bodies, to live in the new heaven and the new earth, forever after in our Lord's eternal kingdom.

"Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning is now, and ever shall be, world without end."
 

jamie

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That is conjecture. He commended His Spirit. He did not cease to exist for three days.

If Jesus didn't die spiritually then he didn't die, he just changed forms.

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Romans 7:14 NKJV)​
 
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