Gordon Carroll on Accountability

[Jefferson]

Gordon Carroll on Accountability

Monday February 7th, 2005. This is show #26.

Gordon used the following verses to promote his fascinating view that the age of accountability begins at the age of 20 years old:

Rom 7:9 - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Numbers 14:29-32 - Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, [concerning] which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised. But [as for] you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.


Numbers 32:11,12 - Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me: Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.


Deut. 1:39 (those who are not yet under the law) - Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

Exodus 30:13-16 - This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel [is] twenty gerahs an half shekel [shall be] the offering of the LORD. Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when [they] give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

Numbers 1:3 - From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

 

[godrulz]

This is not talking about moral, individual salvation any more than the legal drinking age, right to vote, or driving/military service has anything to do with salvation.

The 'age of accountability' varies with the mental and moral capacity of each individual. A mentally challenged or severely brain injured person may never have mental or moral capacity. Even children can come to Jesus before 20, and teens can become Satanists/atheists or murderers with accountability.

Age 20 is as arbitrary as age 8 for Mormons.

Accountable for what in the historical context of age 20? These old testament verses are not proof texts for individual salvation issues in the absence of explicit New Testament principles.

Who is Gordon Carroll? Google says he is the producer of Alien vs Predator:greedy:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by godrulz
Who is Gordon Carroll? Google says he is the producer of Alien vs Predator:greedy:

Amazing isn't he?

He is also my brother in-law.

 

[Poly]

But what is it with God and the age of 20? For some reason this age was important to Him.

Originally posted by godrulz


Who is Gordon Carroll?

Somebody who used to go around with a roar of great stuff!

 

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by Knight

Amazing isn't he?

He is also my brother in-law.

To bad his kids didn't take after him or his wife.

No, I'm joking, they were really great, and a lot of fun to hang out with.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Knight

Amazing isn't he?

He is also my brother in-law.

Seriously? I assume the film producer is not the same one as the speaker on the link? I did not listen to the broadcast, so do not know what he is really teaching.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Poly

But what is it with God and the age of 20? For some reason this age was important to Him.



Somebody who used to go around with a roar of great stuff!

We would have to look at the Jewish, historical/cultural context. We should also remember it may not have New Covenant implications for Gentiles or the Church. We should not make a specious 'age of accountability' doctrine on verses out of context.

Circumcising on the 8th day has medical and Jewish significance. This does not mean Gentile Christians have to make a doctrine about it.

Seriously, who is Gordon?

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by godrulz

We would have to look at the Jewish, historical/cultural context. We should also remember it may not have New Covenant implications for Gentiles or the Church. We should not make a specious 'age of accountability' doctrine on verses out of context.

Circumcising on the 8th day has medical and Jewish significance. This does not mean Gentile Christians have to make a doctrine about it.

Seriously, who is Gordon?

I didn't say I was convinced of it just that I've heard him make some good points.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by godrulz
Seriously, who is Gordon?

Like I said... he is my brother in-law.

And one of the founding members of TOL.

I will have to ask him to come on here and defend his argument (if he has time).

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by godrulz
I did not listen to the broadcast, so do not know what he is really teaching.

Before any discussion would begin, listening to the show might be a good idea.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Sozo

You know what I think?


I think I'll stay away from this thread.



:shut:

O, cmon. Maybe we will agree on something for a change.

Unless we take the time to listen to this, we won't have much credibility. It sounds like a non-starter to me.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by godrulz

The 'age of accountability' varies with the mental and moral capacity of each individual. A mentally challenged or severely brain injured person may never have mental or moral capacity. Even children can come to Jesus before 20, and teens can become Satanists/atheists or murderers with accountability.

On the show, Gordon says that yours is by far the most widely held view on the age of accountability. I would be interested to hear your take on the scripture passages he mentions that support your view, and wonder if you have any you would add.

Who is Gordon Carroll?

Lion

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Turbo

On the show, Gordon says that yours is by far the most widely held view on the age of accountability. I would be interested to hear your take on the scripture passages he mentions that support your view, and wonder if you have any you would add.

Lion

Thx. I wonder if any other thinker/author has thought of this unique teaching? I have heard many novel ideas, but this one has never crossed by desk in 25 years (not that I am the end all and be all of awareness of winds of doctrine).

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by godrulz

Thx. I wonder if any other thinker/author has thought of this unique teaching? I have heard many novel ideas, but this one has never crossed by desk in 25 years (not that I am the end all and be all of awareness of winds of doctrine).

I am becomming more and more convinced that Gordon may be onto something with this.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Sozo

Me too! :chuckle:

I am not kidding!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Sozo

I know, I was just making a joke. (See Quote)

:doh:

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by Knight

:doh:

:crackup:

Leave it to sozo to catch that one!

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Knight

I am becomming more and more convinced that Gordon may be onto something with this.

Blood is thicker than water.

 

[Turbo]

Have you listened to the show yet, godrulz?

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Turbo

Have you listened to the show yet, godrulz?

How long is it? Will it work on a Mac?