nikolai_42
Well-known member
In the debate over free will, it always seems to focus on man. There is an assumption or two that may not be valid with this approach, though. The one I'm thinking of is assuming that God has free will. Before jumping to conclusions here, remember that this is more about the definition of free will than the apprehension of it. Consider the following declaration by God :
God, it seems, is absolutely free in what He can do. But on further examination, that is saying more that He is Sovereign. The difference may be slight, but it is there. Consider what is said about God - both what He declares expressly about Himself and what some inspired writers say of Him :
The fundamental argument behind the idea of libertarian free will is that one can choose to do something or not do something as he wishes at the moment. He is not bound to choose one way or the other. But does even God have that?
I was listening to a talk show in which a man called in and asked a simple question about why Satan sinned. If he was created good, why did he go bad? The answer came back - God gave him free will. Suppose, then, that God has this same quality of free will. What guarantee do we have that He will not all of a sudden decide to turn bad...to be like the mythological gods that are unpredictable and can only be calmed by some appeasement? If God has this same free will that (we are told) led to Satan's downfall (and man's), what is keeping Him from doing the same?
We just quoted scripture that said He won't. That said He can't. There are scriptures that speak of God's goodness, His holiness, His righteousness, His perfection etc... and these all remain. Lucifer had great glory as well...and it was his undoing :
If Lucifer was like this, how much more God? And if God is bright, how much more of a temptation is potential for Him to change and simply become self-absorbed? (This is questioning only to serve to show the necessity of the conclusion - it cannot be for scripture to be true).
One possible answer might be that God defines what is right and wrong by virtue of being God. His very essence is righteousness, so whatever He does is right. He is, after all, Sovereign. But if He is also changeable, then what is right today may not be right tomorrow. And if He is changeable, the scripture is not true and all bets are off. God may have determined what is right and wrong, but not by caprice. It simply is impossible to be.
So if God didn't make some decision one day as to what is good and what isn't, then that Law can't flow (merely) from His decision. It must be grounded in something - in what He has established. And what was established? The cosmos. He spoke it into existence. And the predictability of such things as planetary motion and biological growth testify to the laws built in to Creation. The earth doesn't unpredictably stop rotating, but continues as God has decreed. There may be miracles at times in which supernatural things occur, but these are simply more evidence of God's Sovereignty over nature. Is the ground of all this regulated activity based in a decree God made on a whim? Or is it grounded even further in who God actually IS?
In other words, isn't all this founded in God's nature?
That may be an anti-climactic conclusion, but it seems inescapable that God's actions and will are all founded in His nature. And if He has "free will" (in the libertarian sense) then it must be subordinated to who God is. In other words, that libertarian free will is not really libertarian.
What hope do we have...what SURE hope do we have...if God has libertarian free will? All this is founded in who God IS.
So in light of that, if man really has free will, then how does he base his choices? On what basis does he choose what to have for breakfast? On what basis does he choose God or self? If it isn't nature, then of what value are those choices? They are whims and fancies that can just as easily be contravened by a future whim or choice.
So it is that the free will that man wants to cling to so desperately is the very thing that got him into trouble in the first place. And now, unless man is inherently good, the ground of his choices is based on corruption.
So if God's acts and choices are not based on libertarian free will, why do we insist ours must be? And if they are, why do we think that is a good thing?
KJV said:The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psalm 33:10-11
There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.
Proverbs 19:21
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Isaiah 46:9-11
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Romans 9:19
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13
God, it seems, is absolutely free in what He can do. But on further examination, that is saying more that He is Sovereign. The difference may be slight, but it is there. Consider what is said about God - both what He declares expressly about Himself and what some inspired writers say of Him :
KJV said:For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:6
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
James 1:17
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8
The fundamental argument behind the idea of libertarian free will is that one can choose to do something or not do something as he wishes at the moment. He is not bound to choose one way or the other. But does even God have that?
I was listening to a talk show in which a man called in and asked a simple question about why Satan sinned. If he was created good, why did he go bad? The answer came back - God gave him free will. Suppose, then, that God has this same quality of free will. What guarantee do we have that He will not all of a sudden decide to turn bad...to be like the mythological gods that are unpredictable and can only be calmed by some appeasement? If God has this same free will that (we are told) led to Satan's downfall (and man's), what is keeping Him from doing the same?
We just quoted scripture that said He won't. That said He can't. There are scriptures that speak of God's goodness, His holiness, His righteousness, His perfection etc... and these all remain. Lucifer had great glory as well...and it was his undoing :
KJV said:Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Ezekiel 28:17
If Lucifer was like this, how much more God? And if God is bright, how much more of a temptation is potential for Him to change and simply become self-absorbed? (This is questioning only to serve to show the necessity of the conclusion - it cannot be for scripture to be true).
One possible answer might be that God defines what is right and wrong by virtue of being God. His very essence is righteousness, so whatever He does is right. He is, after all, Sovereign. But if He is also changeable, then what is right today may not be right tomorrow. And if He is changeable, the scripture is not true and all bets are off. God may have determined what is right and wrong, but not by caprice. It simply is impossible to be.
So if God didn't make some decision one day as to what is good and what isn't, then that Law can't flow (merely) from His decision. It must be grounded in something - in what He has established. And what was established? The cosmos. He spoke it into existence. And the predictability of such things as planetary motion and biological growth testify to the laws built in to Creation. The earth doesn't unpredictably stop rotating, but continues as God has decreed. There may be miracles at times in which supernatural things occur, but these are simply more evidence of God's Sovereignty over nature. Is the ground of all this regulated activity based in a decree God made on a whim? Or is it grounded even further in who God actually IS?
In other words, isn't all this founded in God's nature?
That may be an anti-climactic conclusion, but it seems inescapable that God's actions and will are all founded in His nature. And if He has "free will" (in the libertarian sense) then it must be subordinated to who God is. In other words, that libertarian free will is not really libertarian.
KJV said:Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 1:1-2
For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Hebrews 6:13-19
What hope do we have...what SURE hope do we have...if God has libertarian free will? All this is founded in who God IS.
So in light of that, if man really has free will, then how does he base his choices? On what basis does he choose what to have for breakfast? On what basis does he choose God or self? If it isn't nature, then of what value are those choices? They are whims and fancies that can just as easily be contravened by a future whim or choice.
So it is that the free will that man wants to cling to so desperately is the very thing that got him into trouble in the first place. And now, unless man is inherently good, the ground of his choices is based on corruption.
KJV said:As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10-12
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaiah 64:6
O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.
Daniel 9:18
So if God's acts and choices are not based on libertarian free will, why do we insist ours must be? And if they are, why do we think that is a good thing?
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