God

[blackSand]

Just wondering, why The almighty God must come down and be a man, hide from his creation, get arrested , spat on, kicked around and hanged on tree so he will be able to save these creations from himself??
Was no other alternative?
He is the maker of us. He can fix us when he is right there in heaven no need to come down and act like a man.
Think about it

 

[glorydaz]

Just wondering, why The almighty God must come down and be a man, hide from his creation, get arrested , spat on, kicked around and hanged on tree so he will be able to save these creations from himself??
Was no other alternative?
He is the maker of us. He can fix us when he is right there in heaven no need to come down and act like a man.
Think about it

Of course he could have created us with no free will, but He wasn't interested in that.

 

[Bradley D]

Apparently there was no other way. It took a perfect blood sacrifice to free all from sin who had faith then and now.

 

[blackSand]

Apparently there was no other way. It took a perfect blood sacrifice to free all from sin who had faith then and now.

>>>where and when HE makes this command??
(Need perfect human sacrifice) ? I thought HE hates all sacrifices?

 

[blackSand]

Of course he could have created us with no free will, but He wasn't interested in that.

>>> If HE created us with free will, then why he intervened and let little humans hanged him on tree and make fun of him?

 

[ok doser]

>>> If HE created us with free will, then why he intervened and let little humans hanged him on tree and make fun of him?

Seek the answer in your heart

It's already in there, you just have to find it

 

[Bradley D]

>>>where and when HE makes this command??
(Need perfect human sacrifice) ? I thought HE hates all sacrifices?

God makes this command from heaven. God told Moses that the people were to make animal sacrifices to Him. For special events and sin. Where did you get the idea God hates all sacrifices?

 

[glorydaz]

>>> If HE created us with free will, then why he intervened and let little humans hanged him on tree and make fun of him?

He wanted a people who loved Him without being forced to do so. First, He had to make it possible for them to get close to Him. That meant taking care of their sins. As you can imagine, God's plans are not man's.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Was no other alternative?

To provide salvation by dying on the cross?

I'll let Jesus' words and actions answer that question:

He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” . . . Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done.” . . . So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. - Matthew 26:39,42,44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew26:39,42,44&version=NKJV

Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet: “They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.”Sitting down, they kept watch over Him there.And they put up over His head the accusation written against Him: THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.Then two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and another on the left.And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their headsand saying, “You who destroy the temple and build it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross.”Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said,“He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him.He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’ ”Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land.And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!”Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. - Matthew 27:35-50 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew27:35-50&version=NKJV

He is the maker of us. He can fix us when he is right there in heaven no need to come down and act like a man.

Love is the commitment to the good of someone.

God is love.

Ergo, God will not do something cruel, such as forcing a creature he made with a will to live with Him against his will. If a man decides he wants to live apart from God, then God will respect that, and allow the man to live apart from Him, even if doing so will harm him, because doing otherwise would harm them even more, and would make God out to be like a man who kidnaps a woman and forces her to live with him, never allowing her to leave.

 

[JudgeRightly]

If HE created us with free will, then why he intervened and let little humans hanged him on tree and make fun of him?

Because some pain is worth much love.

Because He is the God who provides. By Him going to the cross, He provided a way for those who love Him to be with Him.

 

[JudgeRightly]

He wanted a people who loved Him without being forced to do so.

Indeed. Love must be freely given.

If it isn't free, it isn't love.

First, He had to make it possible for them to get close to Him That meant taking care of their sins. As you can imagine, God's plans are not man's.

I always think of God's reconciliation this way:

Man tore down the bridge between God and man. (Man sins.)
God rebuilt that bridge. (Christ died on the cross.)
Man now has the opportunity to cross that bridge. (Man must humble himself before God.)
Those who do shall be saved. ("We shall be saved by His life.")

 

[blackSand]

Because some pain is worth much love.

Because He is the God who provides. By Him going to the cross, He provided a way for those who love Him to be with Him.

>>> God didn’t go to the cross on his own.
We been told, he begged to be spare, he was in hiding, got arrested, and dragged by bunch of little men to be hanged. This is execution. No sacrifices.
A soldier who jump on grenade to save his fellow soldiers and die, this is a sacrifice.
A soldier who was been thrown on grenade by someone to save his fellow soldiers and die, he was murder, no sacrifices.

 

[ok doser]

>>> God didn’t go to the cross on his own.
We been told, he begged to be spare, he was in hiding, got arrested, and dragged by bunch of little men to be hanged. This is execution. No sacrifices.
A soldier who jump on grenade to save his fellow soldiers and die, this is a sacrifice.
A soldier who was been thrown on grenade by someone to save his fellow soldiers and die, he was murder, no sacrifices.

Okay, this is what you believe

So what?

 

[JudgeRightly]

God didn’t go to the cross on his own.

Because you say so?

We been told,

We? You have a mouse in your pocket or something?

he begged to be spare,

"Begged to be spared"?

Not quite.

He asked if there was any other way (there wasn't) but if there wasn't, He was willing to go to the cross.

he was in hiding,

He wasn't.

got arrested, and dragged by bunch of little men to be hanged. This is execution.

I think you need to read Isaiah 53.

No sacrifices.
A soldier who jump on grenade to save his fellow soldiers and die, this is a sacrifice.

A God who goes willingly to the cross to save His creation by dying... isn't a sacrifice?

A soldier who was been thrown on grenade by someone to save his fellow soldiers and die, he was murder, no sacrifices.

No one is saying Christ's execution wasn't murder.

What we're saying is that Christ went willingly to the cross, sacrificing Himself to save mankind, and that he used their wicked deed to accomplish His goals.

God is a master chess player, He can use his enemies movements to win the game.

 

[ttruscott]

"Begged to be spared"?

Not quite.

He asked if there was any other way (there wasn't) but if there wasn't, He was willing to go to the cross.

Lk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Whether He was sweating actual blood (Hematohidrosis: a very rare condition of sweating blood. A case of hematohidrosis is reported. There are only few reports in the literature.) or not, it was obvious that He was greatly stressed. I contend that in this agony He thought HE was about to die in the garden. The cup He asked to pass by Him being a premature death since He was fully committed to the cross. He did not flinch at the cross or death...just a death that did not reflect scripture.

 

[blackSand]

Because you say so?

>>> did he just walked on his own to the killers and asked them to sacrifice him?

"Begged to be spared"?

Not quite.

>>>of course he did , god went a side and start to pray to god to save him from death.

He asked if there was any other way (there wasn't) but if there wasn't, He was willing to go to the cross.

>>>god didn’t know if was any alternative??

He wasn't.



I think you need to read Isaiah 53.

>>>show me in Isaiah 53: god must die as a sacrifice for human to be save from the anger of god? Or god must die to atone for adam sin?
Make sure when you at there to read 51,52,54 too and tell me if he was talking about the serpent of god (Israel) or God almighty?

A God who goes willingly to the cross to save His creation by dying... isn't a sacrifice?

>>>If he is a real God then he doesn’t have to do such things.
Can you imagine I told you when I was driving my car and I was in control of the car when someone jump in front of me. I have two choices:
1) to use my brake and stop the car. Or
2) jump from the driver seat and lay down in front of the car to make stop?
Is my death consider heroic and sacrifice to save someone?
I think if I do the second I’ll be the most idiot on earth. Don’t you agree?

No one is saying Christ's execution wasn't murder.

>>> please make up your mind murder is not a sacrifice and sacrifice isn’t a murder!!

What we're saying is that Christ went willingly to the cross, sacrificing Himself to save mankind, and that he used their wicked deed to accomplish His goals.

>>> Q: when did jesus (god) told his god: today I accomplished what you sent me to do.
Before or after he died?

God is a master chess player, He can use his enemies movements to win the game.

>>>No HE is not.
God almighty Nothing like him anywhere.
Thank you

 

[ttruscott]

Good question. Why is an omnipotent God constrained in his methods? And, why is giving up a human life when he well knows he is not really going to die, a sacrifice?

Why do you think HE was constrained in some way against HIS power? Are you just denigrating HIM for some reason? You start with a worldly story and try to make it fit some worldly view of GOD. I start with an understanding of who GOD is and then look to see how HIS goodness is expressed in the story...

GOD is constrained from many things, all related to HIS choice to be good, righteous, loving and just so HE is constrained in all things that do not fulfill HIS perfections, HIS goodness and loving kindness.

I assume that because HE chose to redeem us in this manner that it was because this method was the most perfect way to achieve the redemption and sanctification of the sinful elect good seed so their sins would stop hindering the day of judgement of the weeds facing being burnt.

Why His death was the perfect way to redeem the sinful elect, His sheep gone astray into sin, is a mystery to me that I look forward to understand.

 

[JudgeRightly]

did he just walked on his own

He came as a baby in a manger, willingly.

to the killers and asked them to sacrifice him?

Maybe you ought to reread the four gospels. Everything Jesus did had a purpose, especially what he said to the religious leaders.

>>>of course he did , god went a side and start to pray to god to save him from death.

You missed the important bit:

He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” - Matthew 26:39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew26:39&version=NKJV

god didn’t know if was any alternative??

There WAS no alternative, if God wanted to be able to save mankind from his sin. I demonstrated that by quoting Jesus, and then showing you his actions.

Or do you think that there was, and Jesus was being insincere about his prayer in Gethsemane?

show me in Isaiah 53: god must die as a sacrifice for human to be save

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:23&version=NKJV

from the anger of god?

The demands of justice must be met.

Or god must die to atone for adam sin?

What is a kinsman redeemer? | GotQuestions.org

What is a kinsman (kinsmen) redeemer? What does it mean that Boaz was Naomi and Ruth’s kinsman-redeemer?

www.gotquestions.org

Make sure when you at there to read 51,52,54 too and tell me if he was talking about the serpent of god (Israel) or God almighty?

Red herring.

If he is a real God then he doesn’t have to do such things.

Because you say so?

Can you imagine I told you when I was driving my car and I was in control of the car when someone jump in front of me. I have two choices:
1) to use my brake and stop the car. Or
2) jump from the driver seat and lay down in front of the car to make stop?

I'd be pretty impressed if you could jump out of your car and lay down in front of it before you hit the person...

Is my death consider heroic and sacrifice to save someone?

If there was no other way to save the person, then yes.

I'll let this article answer that question.

Cursed Cars III: The True Story Behind Phantom 309 - BestRide

Red Sovine released the song “Phantom 309” in 1967, almost a decade before CB truckin’ songs became unavoidable. It’s about a haunted 18-wheeler, and the story behind one of its verses is quite true, to the point that town residents worked to erect a monument in honor of the real-life hero in...

bestride.com

I think if I do the second I’ll be the most idiot on earth. Don’t you agree?

Nope.

>>> please make up your mind murder is not a sacrifice and sacrifice isn’t a murder!!

Both. It was both murder, and a sacrifice.

Just like you can sacrifice a queen in chess to defeat your opponent. Your opponent took your best piece, but it was part of your plan from the beginning, because you had a pawn that was about to make it to the far end of the board so you could get the queen back and win the game.

>>> Q: when did jesus (god) told his god: today I accomplished what you sent me to do.
Before or after he died?

When He died.

>>>No HE is not.

Did you stamp your foot when you wrote that?

Is it true just because you say so?

I'm saying that God is omnicompetent, able to accomplish anything He desires, and you're denying that?

What does scripture say?

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. - Romans 8:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:28&version=NKJV

For the Lord of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?” - Isaiah 14:27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah14:27&version=NKJV

The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing; He makes the plans of the peoples of no effect.The counsel of the Lord stands forever, The plans of His heart to all generations. - Psalm 33:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm33:10-11&version=NKJV

There are many plans in a man’s heart, Nevertheless the Lord’s counsel—that will stand. - Proverbs 19:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs19:21&version=NKJV

And there are plenty more like those.

God almighty Nothing like him anywhere.
Thank you

But not a master tactician, eh?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Lk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Missing the point I'm trying to make.

Whether He was sweating actual blood (Hematohidrosis: a very rare condition of sweating blood. A case of hematohidrosis is reported. There are only few reports in the literature.) or not, it was obvious that He was greatly stressed. I contend that in this agony He thought HE was about to die in the garden. The cup He asked to pass by Him being a premature death since He was fully committed to the cross. He did not flinch at the cross or death...just a death that did not reflect scripture.

 

[Arial]

Just wondering, why The almighty God must come down and be a man, hide from his creation, get arrested , spat on, kicked around and hanged on tree so he will be able to save these creations from himself??
Was no other alternative?
He is the maker of us. He can fix us when he is right there in heaven no need to come down and act like a man.
Think about it

Jesus came as a man for a specific reason, and yes it was the only way unless God set aside His attribute of being perfectly just.
He made a decree that the wages of sin is death. All have sinned. There is no fallen human who can meet the criteria of substituting themselves for the penalty. This is shadowed in the required perfection of the the lamb or bull etc. that substituted as a temporary covering for sin in the OT. Heb 9:22; Lev 17:11; Rev 1:5; Eph 1:7; Matt 26:28. Covenants were also ratified with the shedding of blood. A fallen human, (a sinner) would first have to die for their own sins. The blood of bulls and goats would cover sin temporarily and had to be repeated over and over. Heb 10:2-4. Also Heb 9:11-14. This atonement and substitution must also be accomplished by one of us (human. Of the same kind as the one being atoned for,) if it were to be a once for all, true cleansing. That is why God the Son came as a man. Tempted as we are, but without sin.

Jesus doing this was not simply a substitution but it actually did something. When Jesus went to the cross, suffered and died, He was actually paying the penalty, the debt, that God has against us as sinners. This is our death, both physically and as eternal separation from Him. Jesus who was without sin, took the place of all who would trust in Him for salvation, took our punishment, and died. Since He was without sin, death could not hold Him. Our sins, those of the believer, met God's justice in Him. He conquered sin and He conquered death on our behalf, so that they no longer hold us in bondage to face the wrath of God against sin. This is done by His righteousness being accredited to us just as our sin was counted as though it were His. 2 Cor 5:21; Phil 3:9; Is 53:11; Rom 4:5

This work of Jesus is applied to a person through faith (trust in Jesus alone to save us) Eph 2:8-10