God is one.
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oatmeal
Well-known member
Deuteronomy 6:4
AMP
“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one [the only God]!
AMPC
Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord [the only Lord].
BRG
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
CSB
“Listen, Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
DRA
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
ERV
“Listen, people of Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is the only God.
EASY
Listen, Israelites! The Lord alone is our God. There is no other true God.
EHV
Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is one!
ESV
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
ESVUK
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
AMP
“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one [the only God]!
AMPC
Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord [the only Lord].
BRG
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
CSB
“Listen, Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
DRA
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
ERV
“Listen, people of Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is the only God.
EASY
Listen, Israelites! The Lord alone is our God. There is no other true God.
EHV
Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is one!
ESV
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
ESVUK
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Right Divider
Body part
Is that "one Lord" the LORD God or the Lord Jesus Christ? (Hint: both).
It would be remiss to insist that "one" can only mean that YHWH is only a single individual instead of a unity since scripture plainly references "one" as being a unity.
12 tribes = one nation
Many members = one body.
Husband & wife = one flesh.
etc.
It is easy to show that ancient Jews most certainly believed that YHWH was a unity for centuries.
Such evidence can be seen by Jewish scholars, such as Alan F. Segal and Benjamin D. Sommers, who both wrote books documented with substantial footnotes of the beliefs of ancient Jews.
Not only did ancient Jews believe YHWH was a unity, but they also fully recognized that it DID NOT violate monotheism at all.
And I will remind folks that neither of these men thought Jesus was the Messiah, so no one can accuse them of a 'Christian' spin on their research.
Two Powers In Heaven by Alan F. Segal
The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel by Benjamin D. Sommer
Both of these books are documented to the hilt with actual ancient Jewish writings and the scriptures that led them to this unequivocal belief.
This is an issue that must be studied as THEOLOGY, not MATHAMATICS.
Right Divider
Body part
Mathematics
oatmeal
Well-known member
oatmeal
Well-known member
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
tells us that God gave the promise of pneuma hagion to his son to give to us
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, you have shown a list of one type of entity that is a subset of a different kind of entity.
Since we should look at scripture instead of other sources, may I suggest you reread the list of verses I provided to see that the Lord God is the only one.
ERV
“Listen, people of Israel! The Lord is our God. The Lord is the only God.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
makes it very clear that there are two lords, one is the Lord God and the other is the lord Jesus Christ who is the son of God.
Right Divider
Body part
Eph 4:5 (KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 (KJV) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:6 (KJV) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
It shows that a unity (many membered: as hand, foot, eye, ear) can be referred to as a single ("one") body.
Multiple members functioning in unity for one purpose.
Which is why you shouldn't be so literally strict with the word "one" when it comes to theological issues or you end up with contradictory statements.
It is the same reason to not be so literally strict with other theological issues as well.
For instance, one can say that YHWH can be everywhere (as scripture proclaims) and yet can still say that YHWH can show up or leave places (as scripture proclaims).
They both make an important theological point, but if either is taken in a literally strict manner then you end up with contradictory statements.
I assure you that the 2 books I mentioned are packed with scriptures showing the theological implications that YHWH is a unity and that the ancients Jews believed it for centuries and did not consider it to be disloyal to monotheism.
Why would you think that modern day men would know more about what the scriptural language meant than the ancient men that lived in the time and culture it was written?
Right Divider
Body part
That is totally correct. I'm pretty sure this have been explained to him (and others) before. There are multiple Hebrew words for "one". The one used in Deut 6:4 is "echad", which is a one of UNITY and not a one of absolute SINGULARITY.
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
It's also used here:
Gen 2:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Derf
Well-known member
That wasn't a list of verses, that was one verse, repeated numerous times.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Who is that one Lord?
We have two choices.
Acts 2:34-36 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
The first Lord is clearly in charge because he commands the second lord to " Sit thou on my right hand,".
Likewise, the first Lord is more powerful than the second because the first Lord states, " I make thy foes thy footstool."
The is the Lord God and His son known as the lord Jesus Christ.
Who is the Lord of Ephesians 4:5?
oatmeal
Well-known member
oatmeal
Well-known member
You assume because of your narrative that one does not mean one, but more than one.
If God meant more than one, why didn't God state some other numeral other than one?
Why don't you look at the uses of echad that occur before Genesis 2:24?
Gen 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:9
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 2:11
The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:21
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Clearly, the uses are referring to one in number or first, not a multiplicity of objects.
IF you choose to insist that one means properly united, please explain the next verse where echad is used.
Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one H259 of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Are you sure that the Lord God and the sinful Adam are properly united as one? One as in "one flesh" or one God?
If we continue down the list of places where echad is used, we find that it is referring to one object, not a unity of objects.
Gen 4:19
And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Gen 8:5
And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
Gen 8:13
And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
Gen 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
Gen 11:1
And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Gen 11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Do you think it is wise to take such unfounded liberty with scripture?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Please look at post #18
The first day was indeed special, as indicated by the use of "echad" rather than "rishom."
It reads "day one," rather than "the first day"
All of the other days in the creation week use ordinals, but the first day uses echad instead of the ordinal rishom.
A grouping together of the waters into a united place (multiple of them, rather).
Same as with 1:5.
I'm not entirely sure on this one, but at best for your case, either way you look at it, it doesn't harm my (and RD's) position.
Yes, Echad also means and is used as "first."
There's no dispute there.
But you're stubbornly ignoring the fact that it ALSO means a unity of things.
That's what it means per Strong's Concordance.
You're literally arguing against the definition of the word, at this point.
GOD is the origin of the royal "we" because He is "ECHAD ELOHIM." ONE God. A united plurality.
Or would you rather make the argument that He is the "first" God instead?
That'll lead you to heresy.
God isn't saying Adam IS one with Him.
Read the verse again:
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3:22 - New King James Version
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
God is comparing Adam post eating the fruit to Himself, not saying he has become God or part of God.
"LIKE" one of Us.
Please pay attention to the scripture you yourself quote.
"First"
Which is one of the definitions of Echad, and thus part of what RD said.
Again, "first," which fits what RD said.
Same again.
Same as the first example in this series.
This "one" actually does mean united.
All the people are speaking a united language. Their language is unified.
They are a united people, with a united language.
Thanks for giving those examples. They only strengthen our position.
Here's a few more examples that further prove our one position:
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:24 - New King James Version
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
And one more:
So Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has said we will do.”
Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 24:3 - New King James Version
So Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has said we will do.”
And one more again:
The trespass offering is like the sin offering; there is one law for them both: the priest who makes atonement with it shall have it.
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 7:7 - New King James Version
The trespass offering is like the sin offering; there is one law for them both: the priest who makes atonement with it shall have it.
These three examples all show "unity" rather than "first."