Freedom of Speech?

[lovemeorhateme]

Today it was reported in the UK news that a street preacher was convicted for his sermons on the streets of Taunton:

A Christian street preacher was today found guilty of using "threatening" language by quoting the Bible when speaking about homosexuality on the streets of Taunton in June last year.

Former paratrooper Mike Overd was convicted under section 5 of the Public Order Act, which concerns causing harassment, alarm or distress by using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour.

The judge at Bristol Crown Court told him that he should not have used the particular verse in the Bible – Leviticus 20:13 – because it uses the word "abomination". The judge suggested that there were other verses he could have chosen if he wanted to talk about what the Bible says about homosexuality.

Libby Towell, spokesperson for the Christian Legal Centre, who represented Overd, said: "The judge is effectively censoring the Bible and saying that certain verses aren't fit for public consumption."

Overd was given a fine of £1,400, which included an amount for the emotional harm caused to the homosexual man, who is also a Christian, to whom he was speaking when he quoted Leviticus.

He was, however, acquitted of a second charge with regard to comments he made about the prophet Mohammed in a separate incident in July 2014. When talking about religious leaders, Overd said that you could not compare Mohammed with Jesus – adding that if a man marries a nine-year-old girl, "In this country we call that paedophilia"

The complaint was brought by a woman who described herself as a devout Christian, although no Muslims had complained about the comments. The woman said she was offended by the comments and thought it was "inflammatory". However, the judge said that it had failed to be proven.

Overd has been preaching on the streets for more than five years, and this is not the first time he's faced legal action; in 2012 he was acquitted of similar charges.

"There's been a concerted campaign to stop him speaking the word of God on the streets of Taunton," Towell said. "Today was the result that the police had been looking for."

But she added that this would not prevent Overd from preaching on the streets again. "He answers to God," Towell said, adding that he would be seeking legal advice about what he should do next.

Towell said the Christian Legal Centre stood by Overd. "He's not preaching his opinion. He's preaching what God's word says."

Speaking of the wider issue, she said this case marked a "new level" in court action against preaching in public. "It's now going through what the Bible saying that some parts shouldn't be spoken about and might cause emotional harm. It's quite shocking," she said.

Full Article: http://www.christiantoday.com/artic...ening.language.by.quoting.leviticus/50564.htm

How far should freedom of speech extend? Should there be limits on it? For that matter, should one be censored by law for speaking certain parts of the Bible in public?

 

[shagster01]

It probably depends on if what he was saying could be constituted as a threat. There are no real quotes in this blurb you posted. Was he saying that he thinks gays are gross, or was he saying that all gays must die? Or something in between? hard to form an opinion without knowing.

If he was indeed quoting Leviticus 20:13, then he was telling this gay man that he is "to be put to death." I could see how that is threatening to the gay man.

 

[Daniel1611]

I've heard of this kind of thing in Europe before where certain passages are not allowed to be read in public if they are offensive to queers or jews. It's a sad day when Europe and America are so concerned about what queers and jews think about the Bible that trample free speech underfoot.

 

[rexlunae]

Today it was reported in the UK news that a street preacher was convicted for his sermons on the streets of Taunton:



Full Article: http://www.christiantoday.com/artic...ening.language.by.quoting.leviticus/50564.htm

How far should freedom of speech extend? Should there be limits on it? For that matter, should one be censored by law for speaking certain parts of the Bible in public?

I'm generally a fan of extensive free speech rights. But that's a rare thing outside the US, and this does seem consistent with how speech is limited in the UK.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

It probably depends on if what he was saying could be constituted as a threat. There are no real quotes in this blurb you posted. Was he saying that he thinks gays are gross, or was he saying that all gays must die? Or something in between? hard to form an opinion without knowing.

If he was indeed quoting Leviticus 20:13, then he was telling this gay man that he is "to be put to death." I could see how that is threatening to the gay man.

I found this example of him preaching. Sounds like a pretty regular hellfire and brimstone sermon to me.

Michael Overd

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I'm generally a fan of extensive free speech rights. But that's a rare thing outside the US, and this does seem consistent with how speech is limited in the UK.

This is the first time that I'm aware of where a street preacher has been convicted for speaking his opinion on homosexuality. The police have arrested other preachers but none has been convicted, usually with the charges later being dropped due to 'lack of evidence' (aka the implications of a possible conviction on free speech).

 

[Mocking You]

I've heard of this kind of thing in Europe before where certain passages are not allowed to be read in public if they are offensive to queers or jews. It's a sad day when Europe and America are so concerned about what queers and jews think about the Bible that trample free speech underfoot.

And when has this happened in America?

 

[Daniel1611]

And when has this happened in America?

It hasn't yet, but it will eventually. It's mostly just society that is marginalizing fundamental Christian beliefs. The government will start prosecuting eventually. If not anytime soon, it will when the government gives its power into the Beast.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

It hasn't yet, but it will eventually. It's mostly just society that is marginalizing fundamental Christian beliefs. The government will start prosecuting eventually. If not anytime soon, it will when the government gives its power into the Beast.

We share our thoughts on this one. The UK is supposed to be a country which prizes free speech. In the name of 'political correctness' things have slowly been changing. There was a time not long ago when it would be unheard of for a street preacher to get arrested. People went about their business and if they didn't like what the preacher had to say they ignored them. Some may have shouted at the preacher, but the police wouldn't have dreamed of arresting someone for preaching.

My boss is just one among many examples of the police trying to suppress free speech. In 2006, he was arrested at Cardiff LGBT Mardi Gras for giving out evangelistic tracts. The charges were later dropped due to 'lack of evidence' (even though it was done in front of the police officers), and he then sued South Wales Police for wrongful arrest and won around £15,000.

There are a number of other cases where preachers have been arrested, sometimes after being asked a question about homosexuality and answering honestly even though they didn't mention it in their sermons.

If it can happen here, it can happen in the US too. Even the National Secular Society have spoken out against this conviction due to the worrying implications on freedom of speech.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Here's another example of what's been going on over here:

A Christian street preacher who was held by police without food or water for 15 hours after he was arrested over comments he made to two gay teenagers has been given £13,000 in compensation.

John Craven was held in Manchester after two boys claimed they were offended by his views on homosexuality.

The 57-year-old said the experience in September 2011 had been "distressing".

Greater Manchester Police agreed to compensate Mr Craven after he alleged a breach of his human rights.

Mr Craven, who has regularly preached in Manchester city centre for seven years, was approached by the boys while he was preaching about salvation.

He said the teenagers asked him what he thought of gays, which he had answered by quoting from the Bible's teachings on the subject, before adding that "whilst God hates sin, He loves the sinner".
He said the pair then began to kiss in front of him and act out sexual acts.

The boys then reported Mr Craven to a nearby mounted police constable, who placed him under arrest for "public order offences".

He was taken to a city centre police station and held for 19 hours while an investigation took place.

He said that within this time, he was denied food, water and his medication for rheumatoid arthritis for 15 hours.

He added that he was eventually given a bowl of cereal and a microwave meal after a friend complained about his treatment.
He said he had "never intended to cause anyone harassment, alarm or distress - in fact, quite the opposite".

"The actions of the police have left me feeling nervous and anxious [and] I found the whole episode extremely distressing," he said.
Mr Craven brought legal action against the force alleging wrongful arrest, false imprisonment and a breach of his human rights.
His case was supported by The Christian Institute, a charity that promotes the Christian faith.

Director Colin Hart said: "Nobody should face 19 hours in custody for simply answering a question about their beliefs.
"The disgraceful way in which Mr Craven was treated fell well below what the public deserve.

"In terms of the infringement of religious liberty, it was one of the worst cases we have ever dealt with."

Greater Manchester Police agreed to pay a total of £50,000 in costs and compensation in an out-of-court settlement.

Supt Alan Greene said the force could not "go into detail about the circumstances, [but] we can acknowledge that we did make mistakes and, in particular, kept the claimant in custody for too long".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-26816850

The police are doing this because of the "equality" laws enacted by the government. In trying to follow them, they often make wrongful arrests. Thankfully, most arrests don't lead to conviction.

 

[Town Heretic]

Today it was reported in the UK news that a street preacher was convicted for his sermons on the streets of Taunton:

A sad day for your rights across the pond.

How far should freedom of speech extend?

I think it depends on the circumstance, that no right is without some rational restriction. Should an anti theist have the right to stand up in your church and begin a diatribe? In our country we get permits for public speaking. I'm not sure how it's done there. Speech that isn't a call to violence/criminal activity should be protected, be it virtuous or odious.

 

[Nick M]

How far should freedom of speech extend? Should there be limits on it? For that matter, should one be censored by law for speaking certain parts of the Bible in public?

There is no limit for the left as far as I know. The only restriction is against God.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

A sad day for your rights across the pond.

Agreed. Of course the judgement will be appealed, but the very fact he was convicted is very worrying.

I think it depends on the circumstance, that no right is without some rational restriction. Should an anti theist have the right to stand up in your church and begin a diatribe? In our country we get permits for public speaking. I'm not sure how it's done there. Speech that isn't a call to violence/criminal activity should be protected, be it virtuous or odious.

I agree with you on that. Of course they should not have that right, and I would say that if a preacher walked into a gay bar to start his sermon that wouldn't be right either. But outside, on the street on public property as long as there is no call to violence or criminal activity there should be no restrictions in place no matter how odious that person may be. We then have the same rights as them to exercise our free speech to criticise what they are saying if we wish to do so.

The criminalisation of speech is a slippery slope to go down, and I really hope the appeal will be successful.

 

[Town Heretic]

Agreed. Of course the judgement will be appealed, but the very fact he was convicted is very worrying.

I agree with you on that. Of course they should not have that right, and I would say that if a preacher walked into a gay bar to start his sermon that wouldn't be right either. But outside, on the street on public property as long as there is no call to violence or criminal activity there should be no restrictions in place no matter how odious that person may be. We then have the same rights as them to exercise our free speech to criticise what they are saying if we wish to do so.

My caveat would be you can't have citizens clogging the thoroughfares either and that public parks are better suited as a venue. There's a street preacher in Mobile who has been crying in the wilderness of the main downtown park for some time. People are free to pass by him or listen or circumnavigate him altogether by sidewalk. That seems a better arrangement.

If I were a business owner I wouldn't want the impediment to my trade and if I was an ordinary citizen attempting to shop and enjoy the public access of various businesses I think I should be entitled to do so without being harassed. So there's a way to accommodate both interests.

The criminalisation of speech is a slippery slope to go down, and I really hope the appeal will be successful.

It's a horrible notion absent a direct appeal to violence...I bet some would say the condemnation from moral authority of a legal state of citizenry is such a call, but I would argue that absent a further appeal by the speaker to overthrow the law, there's no real justification in taking that approach and that speech should override comfort as a consideration, that rights are often messy things and that the Klan should march as surely as homosexuals or the Rotary.

:e4e: And happy birthday again.

 

[Nick M]

Convert to islam and then you can say what you want.

And you all thought they were not serious when they said to behead.

 

[resodko]

We share our thoughts on this one. The UK is supposed to be a country which prizes free speech. In the name of 'political correctness' things have slowly been changing. There was a time not long ago when it would be unheard of for a street preacher to get arrested. People went about their business and if they didn't like what the preacher had to say they ignored them. Some may have shouted at the preacher, but the police wouldn't have dreamed of arresting someone for preaching.

My boss is just one among many examples of the police trying to suppress free speech. In 2006, he was arrested at Cardiff LGBT Mardi Gras for giving out evangelistic tracts. The charges were later dropped due to 'lack of evidence' (even though it was done in front of the police officers), and he then sued South Wales Police for wrongful arrest and won around £15,000.

There are a number of other cases where preachers have been arrested, sometimes after being asked a question about homosexuality and answering honestly even though they didn't mention it in their sermons.

If it can happen here, it can happen in the US too. Even the National Secular Society have spoken out against this conviction due to the worrying implications on freedom of speech.

where do you guys stand on denying the holocaust?

In Canada it’s been prosecuted (successfully) as hate speech