Forgiveness

[George Freed]

Forgiveness is an interesting subject. To forgive or not forgive, that is the question!

I guess to some extent it depends on what you define as forgiveness. I guess the other question is, what is forgiveness for and what does it do? I like what you are saying when it comes to forgiving folks.

What I'm thinking that forgiveness is as much for the people doing the forgiving as the people who are getting it. The problem with folks who don't forgive is that these people hang on to allot of anger when they don't forgive folks. In my mind just because I have forgiven a person doesn't mean I'm going to trust them. If a person does something against me they are going to have to prove that they can once again be trusted.

I've seen folks who don't forgive and they get eaten up with anger! So maybe I need a better explanation. You see I always thought and forgiving was mostly to put the forgivers minds to rest. The person you forgive may not care less what you are thinking but the forgiver needs away to get rid or their anger and put their minds at rest.

So I agree with what your saying but at the same time we have to find away to deal with our emotions. So how does the Bible handle this? I'm asking this because for years I didn't forgive and I built up so must anger toward folks that eventually I got really sick!

Once I forgave these people and let the anger go I started to feel a whole lot better! I mean way better then I've felt in awhile.. So, what do you think?

 

[Agape4Robin]

Forgiveness is an interesting subject. To forgive or not forgive, that is the question!

I guess to some extent it depends on what you define as forgiveness. I guess the other question is, what is forgiveness for and what does it do? I like what you are saying when it comes to forgiving folks.

What I'm thinking that forgiveness is as much for the people doing the forgiving as the people who are getting it. The problem with folks who don't forgive is that these people hang on to allot of anger when they don't forgive folks. In my mind just because I have forgiven a person doesn't mean I'm going to trust them. If a person does something against me they are going to have to prove that they can once again be trusted.

I've seen folks who don't forgive and they get eaten up with anger! So maybe I need a better explanation. You see I always thought and forgiving was mostly to put the forgivers minds to rest. The person you forgive may not care less what you are thinking but the forgiver needs away to get rid or their anger and put their minds at rest.

So I agree with what your saying but at the same time we have to find away to deal with our emotions. So how does the Bible handle this? I'm asking this because for years I didn't forgive and I built up so must anger toward folks that eventually I got really sick!

Once I forgave these people and let the anger go I started to feel a whole lot better! I mean way better then I've felt in awhile.. So, what do you think?

Many people think that forgiveness is telling the offender, essentially, "it's OK." And that's good IF the offense is not a big deal. But usuallly the person who has offended knows better and is truly repentant. And then there are others who will have to be told that their behavior will not be tolerated. Christians are commanded by Christ to forgive.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat 18:22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

He also tells us how to forgive.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

It is beneficial for all people to give and recieve forgiveness.:hetro:

 

[George Freed]

I guess what I'm saying is that people often don't care if they sinned against you! I've known folks that will take advantage of you as many times as they can and then more. Its really easy to get angry at folks like that and to carry the anger for along time. We often need away to release ourselves from that anger.. This is why I think those Amish folk forgave the guy who killed their children. They forgave him not for his sake but for their mental health. Also the killer's family should not be held responsible for the killer's action. It seems that they had NO IDEA at all what was going on. But hurts if not released pile up until folks get to the point the Muslims are at now.

Those folks in the middle east have thousands of years of hate built up. All they do is kill and be killed. I'll bet many of those people in the middle east don't even know WHY they hate the folks that are fighting against. Look now at how the Muslims kill each other. They kill each other more then they kill US soldiers! Thats because in the Muslim culture there is no room for forgiveness at all.

Maybe forgiveness isn't what I'm doing because as I've said, I will forgive the person but that doesn't mean I'll trust them.. I will not hang with them.. I will stay away from them.. and I'll be ready for them next time.

So I see your point. I understand what your saying. I agree with what your saying. But at the same time I understand what the Amish are doing too.. I can see both sides of the issue simply because I know all to well what happens if you hold on to too much anger. With me I got to the point where my stress levels got way too high. It wasn't that I was running around screaming at people or anything. I simply held all that stress in. I did this for years and years. Finally my body revolted and I started to get these very powerful neck aches. Then suddenly one day I got a head ache that was SO brutal that it sent my body into shock. I started getting these headaches every time I moved. I ended up in the hospital for a week and I almost died.

There is nothing wrong with me physically except I have WAY to much stress. So I had to do something to get rid of all this stress I've built up over the years. I had to let go of my anger and forgive all them folks who did bad things to me.. I've done that and I'm slowly getting better, slowly! I can barely walk and I shake like crazy still but at least I'm not having those headaches any more. Now I just have to get my heart under control. That's been the hard part. I don't get the headaches but my hart sometimes goes crazy and pounds so hard that I can't get up.. As I said those headaches were brutal.

So I can tell you first hand that stress no matter where it comes from is really bad for you. For lots of people stress comes out in different ways. I'll bet you that half the people who are sick out there are having stress related problems! I now know that many of the folks that drink or do drugs are again having stress problems.

And so it goes!

 

[2ephesians8]

Hi! Welcome to TOL! I hope we here can help you heal, forgive and grow as a Christian. Try not to get offended if someone is rude or disagrees with you, just joust with them and/or move on from dialogue with them. You can put people on an ignore list if you need too, I have done that before to prevent myself from responding in kind to their abuse or idiocy.

Glad you have joined us!


:cheers:

 

[George Freed]

Oh, I know what you mean. I used to do the Christian NewsGroups like alt.christian.net and others. I think they were full of Satanists. People were just screaming at one another all the time.. It got kind of bad and I could see that I wasn't going to convince anyone or even have a good debate. These folks were simply there to try and get your goat. Satanist like to attempt to get folks angry because when a person is angry their emotions often over ride their intellect. If they can do that they got you and they know it.. Anger over time causes stress and stress over time will make you sick. Satan wants people to be sick and angry all the time...

So far on here people have been good and reasonable. These days if I get someone who is abusive I'll just turn them off and let God handle them, as he does a better job then I can.

 

[Evee]

Hi George stress does make us sick, anymore I can forgive someone but still be on guard.
One way I don't get stressed is not expect anything from those that consiously or unconsiously hurt you.
Don't expect them to fess up.
I could say a lot because I have had family members take full advantage of me.
I guess the best thing to remember is to forgive is not to forget.
I can forgive but don't want to forget, otherwise they keep repeating their wrong and it is not good for me.
Pray God will show you what you are doing to make people use and hurt you.
I did, and I now can seperate forgiveness from forgetting.
The reason I was used so much because I let them.
I once believed every sob story that comes along.
I am better at seperating myself from them using me now.
It took years.

 

[Agape4Robin]

Sometimes we struggle, not with others, but with God. A careful look in the life of a believer would show that strife with others may indicate a struggle in one's spiritual life. The bible is clear, "If someone says, 'I love God,' but hates a Christian brother or sister, that person is a liar; for if we don't love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we have not seen?" (1 John 4:20, NLT).We are responsible before God for our own character in dealing with personal relationships. Much of our stress and strife comes from our own disobedience to God. But WHY should we forgive? Because it helps us to become mature in our faith. In Colossians Paul writes: "Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you" (3:13). It's in the context of relationships where we either learn to be kind, patient, and loving, or we blow apart. But Jesus was really saying we need to forgive as many times as we are offended. It may seem unfair, especially when we feel as though we're the ones always doing the forgiving. Yet, forgiveness calls us to grow in character, which is ultimately most pleasing to God. If we let the root of bitterness spring up, the writer of Hebrews says that it will "defile many" (12:15). Our unforgiveness grows to bitterness and affects everyone. It erupts in anger and brings disease, stress, pain. Bitterness is like swallowing a bottle of poison hoping the other person will die.

We can make may excuses NOT to forgive.
1.It's not fair.
Of course it isn't, but we all live with the consequences of another person's sin. For instance, we're stuck with the consequence of Adam's and Eve's sin. The only real choice we have is whether we want to live out those consequences of the other person's sin in the bondage of bitterness or the freedom of forgiveness.
2.But you don't know how bad he (or she) hurt me!
That's not the issue. The other person may still hurt you. But forgiveness is how you stop the pain.
3.I have to heal first—then I'll be able to forgive.
Research shows over and over that forgiveness brings healing, not the other way around.
4.I want them to feel as hurt as Iam (revenge)
The writer of Hebrews reminds us, "For we know Him who said, 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay'" (10:30). We have to trust that God will even the score and make things right.
5.Where's the justice?
It's in the cross. Jesus died for your sins, and my sins, and his sins, and her sins.


Forgiveness doesn't mean we offer cheap grace, though. Here are two statements I often hear that offer faux forgiveness.
1.I'll just try to forget about it, because God forgot my sins.
True, God remembers our sin no more. But we can't just will ourselves to forget. I like to think we remember because we can learn from it. The most important part of "forgetting" others sin is that we don't take the past and use it against them—just as God doesn't use our sins against us. The one who keeps bringing up past offenses hasn't forgiven.
I'll keep forgiving even though he never changes, since that's what Jesus calls me to do.
Yes, Jesus asks us to forgive over and over, but he never asks us to put up with wrong behavior. When Jesus forgave, he told the person, "Go and sin no more." Part of offering grace is to set clear-cut boundaries that protect us from further abuse. Forgiving from our heart isn't being a punching bag. Although the Lord forgives, he doesn't tolerate sin, and neither should we.
How to forgive

Okay, we all know we should forgive—after all, that's what Christ commands us to do. But how exactly do we forgive?
1. Acknowledge the hurt. The first step is to allow yourself to say, I was hurt/offended when my spouse, friend, sibling, parent or others, did/said this. Sometimes we deny the pain. We think, That hurt didn't matter. Instead of suppressing our feelings, we must come to grips with them. Instead of turning from the pain and anger, we must face them.
2. Gently confront. When a transgression occurs, ask for an explanation. Rather than saying, "You barbarian! You have the sensitivity of gravel. How could you do such a horrid thing to me? Don't you love me?" ask, "When you insulted me, I was surprised. You're usually very sensitive. Can you tell me what was going on?" This is more respectful and will usually keep the door open for genuine dialogue.

3. Pray. Sometimes recalling a hurt or offense can throw us into a tailspin. So here's what to pray for and about:

• <LI class=arttext>to protect your mind, to focus on the forgiveness aspect rather than the negative thoughts
  
  <LI class=arttext>for the Holy Spirit to be your comforter
  
• for a gift of empathy.

It's difficult to empathize with a person who has hurt us. But we can ask God to work actively within us to help us see things from their point of view, to help us understand why they did or said the things that hurt or bothered us—even if that's against our natural desires.

4. Strive for humility. When we're wronged, it's easy to feel morally superior. To forgive, though, I need to see myself as not so different from my offender. By recognizing that there have been plenty of times when I've hurt others, sometimes intentionally, I can see, in humility, our similarities. Then I think of the times I've received forgiveness. How many times has God forgiven me? How many times have other people, including my offender, forgiven me?

5. Start with the easiest offenses. If one hurt is too difficult to forgive, try forgiving an easier one. Put the hard one aside until later. Try again tomorrow. If you want to forgive but can't, keep practicing. It may take time, but forgiving happens.

6. Choose to reconcile. Forgiveness can help promote reconciliation, because it softens attitudes. Reconciliation is all about deciding to talk, talking gently in love, empathizing, repairing any hurt feelings (sooner rather than later), and building a sense of loving devotion that both people feel.

7. Anticipate that the wounds will still hurt. When people have worked through the past to reach forgiveness, they often think (irrationally) that they'll never remember the hurt again. If they do recall the hurt and re-experience pain, they think that their forgiveness was a fraud. Not so. A remembered hurt does not equal unforgiveness.

8. Hold on to forgiveness. Don't dwell on negative emotions when you recall the incident. Remind yourself that you've forgiven the person. We can exert self-control to reach forgiveness. Self-control is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:23), so we don't need to exert it by gut-it-out effort. We can anticipate that God wants to produce self-control in us, so he'll be motivated to help us.

Hope I helped.

 

[George Freed]

Ok, it seems like everyone is agreeing that Forgiveness is a good thing... Forgiveness is good for those getting it and is even better for those giveing...

The reason I wrote this post was because Bob Enyart was saying that forgiveness is a bad thing when the person getting it is not repentant. Well, most people these days are not repentant. As a matter of fact there seems to be this rule, "Never admit to a mistake or an error!" no matter what. I was actually told this by my boss once.

The problem here is that the person that was done wrong is left hurt and angry with no real way to release all these emotions... He didn't explain what a person is to do in cases like this... Its simply not a good idea to stay angry as if you get too much anger in you, your brain will melt and run out your ears!

So for me I choose to forgive realizing that the person in question has problems... I'll tell them what I think and that my forgiveness is NOT necessarily for them... Another words I'm not saying what that person did was RIGHT... I'm saying that I need to let go of the hurt, pain and disappointment so that I can move on... That's my current view! I think I understand your views and they seem to be similar to mine for the most parts.

 

[Servo]

Real simple.

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

 

[Psalmist]

Forgiveness and Mercy.

Forgiveness and Mercy.

This is a great thread . . .

Real simple.

Luke 17:3

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

That is a good verse and advice. The above verse is like "The Final Answer."

From experience this is what I have learned about and from "Forgiveness" and (about) Mercy . . .

If forgive is offered first and accepted, forgive it, receive it and move on.

If forgiveness is asked, give it, receive it, and move on.

Forgiveness is not by degree, it either is or it is not.​

There are those who are forgiven that may need a time of proving themselves to those who have been offended by the actions; showing the have truly repented, taken responsibility.

I can forgive, but I cannot forget. I have learned that if you do not forget the offence, it breeds bitterness, resenment. The offence, forget it.

Forget? The Lord does, are we greater than He who forgave us? See below, Psalm 103:12 and Micah 7:19.​

With forgiveness the conversation of the offence ends . . .

Leviticus 19:16 - You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor: I am the LORD.

Proverbs 11:13 - A talebearer reveals secrets, but he who is of a faithful spirit conceals a matter.

Proverbs 18:8 - The words of a talebearer are like tasty trifles, and they go down into the inmost body.

Proverbs 20:19 - He who goes about as a talebearer reveals secrets; therefore do not associate with one who flatters with his lips.

Proverbs 26:20 - Where there is no wood, the fire goes out; and where there is no talebearer, strife ceases.

Proverbs 26:22 - The words of a talebearer are like tasty trifles, and they go down into the inmost body.​

Talebearer - Traveling gossip(s)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, 1973 Edition, Abington Press.

rakiyl, Hebrew 7400, raw-keel'; from Hebrew 7402, (rakal); a scandal-monger (as traveling about) :- slander, carry tales, talebearer.
rakal, Hebrew 7402, raw-kal'; a primitive root; to travel for trade ;- (spice) merchant.​

Forgiveness is merciful . . .

Matt. 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.​

I believe that forgiveness, and a forgiving spirit go with mercy.

"Mercy is far-reaching, long-enduring, all-encompassing. Nothing is too high for its reach, and nothing is too low for it to stoop and save."

From the Treasury of David, by Charles H. Spurgeon, 1833-1892.​

Ephes. 4:25-32

Forgiveness requires truth . . . 25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let every one speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

Forgiveness is genuine without anger, and leaves no room for the devil . . . 26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

Like labor and work, forgiveness should be honest . . . 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

Forgiveness does not continue to speak evil of the forgiven . . . 29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

A false forgiveness will grieve the Holy Spirit . . . 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Forgiveness requires to . . . 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,

Forgiveness is . . . 32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.​

Forgiveness is . . .

1 Peter 3:8-11

8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
10 For, he that would love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile;
11 let him turn away from evil and do right; let him seek peace and pursue it.​

James 1:19-20

19 Know this, my beloved brethren. Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger, 20 for the anger of man does not work the righteousness of God.
20 If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain.​

Forgiveness requires tongue control . . .

James 3:6-12, 17-18

6 And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.
7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by humankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue--a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who are made in the likeness of God.
10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so.
11 Does a spring pour forth from the same opening fresh water and brackish?
12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a grapevine figs? No more can salt water yield fresh.

Forgiveness is . . .

17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, without uncertainty or insincerity.
18 And the harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.​

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.​

Forgiveness is forgetting . . .

God forever removes our transgressions . . .

Psalm 103:10-12

10 He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor requite us according to our iniquities. 11 For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear Him; 12 as far as the east is from the west, so far does He remove our transgressions from us.​

And they are drowned, gone, and forgotten . . .

Micah 7:19 He will again have compassion upon us, He will tread our iniquities under foot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.​

When praying, forgive . . .

Mark 11:25 And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father also who is in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.​

Judge not, condemn not, forgive . . .

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.​

Forgiveness has depth . . .

Luke 7:47-48 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little. 48 Then He said to her, Your sins are forgiven.​

Covered . . .

Romans 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."

Psalm 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.​

From my childhood I remember . . .

“This is what we say and do, Ephesians four thirty-two” Then we would quote the verse . . .

Ephes. 4:32

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.

Forgiven, that is the "Three Fold" Hallelujah, the Hallelujah shouting ground . . . Forgiven, Praise the Lord, Amen and Amen!​

 

[Psalmist]

FORGIVEN . . .


Praise God my sins are gone,

Praise God my sins are gone,

They are covered 'neath the Blood from the Christ of Calvary,

Praise God . . . My sins are gone!