explain Phil 3:11 ?

[DAN P]

verse in Phil reads , if in any way I might come to the out resurrection from out of the dead ??

what say you ?

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

Seems to me like Paul was looking forward to death…ready to wait for the resurrection of the dead. Like here, I think, when he seemed quite willing to die.

1 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

 

[Derf]

verse in Phil reads , if in any way I might come to the out resurrection from out of the dead ??

what say you ?

dan p

Philippians 3:9-13 KJV — And be found (future tense) in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him (future tense), and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain (future tense) unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained (not past tense), either were already perfect (not already made perfect): but I follow after, if that I may apprehend (future tense) that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended (not past tense): but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind (I'm not saved by what I've done in the past), and reaching forth unto those things which are before (future tense).

Faith in Jesus Christ isn't a past action, but a present reality. If it ceases being a present reality, the future hope for us is suspect.

What I mean is that if we stop believing in His advent, death, burial, and resurrection, and it's applicability to us, we can no longer be sure of our salvation. Our salvation is not assured by an act of belief some years ago.

 

[DAN P]

Philippians 3:9-13 KJV — And be found (future tense) in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him (future tense), and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain (future tense) unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained (not past tense), either were already perfect (not already made perfect): but I follow after, if that I may apprehend (future tense) that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended (not past tense): but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind (I'm not saved by what I've done in the past), and reaching forth unto those things which are before (future tense).

Faith in Jesus Christ isn't a past action, but a present reality. If it ceases being a present reality, the future hope for us is suspect.

What I mean is that if we stop believing in His advent, death, burial, and resurrection, and it's applicability to us, we can no longer be sure of our salvation. Our salvation is not assured by an act of belief some years ago.

and I looked at Phil 3:11-13 and where do you see the future tense ?

and Paul is speaking of 2 resurrections is verse 11 that have not yet happened !!

dan p

 

[Derf]

and I looked at Phil 3:11-13 and where do you see the future tense ?

and Paul is speaking of 2 resurrections is verse 11 that have not yet happened !!

dan p

"Not happened yet" = future tense.

 

[glorydaz]

and I looked at Phil 3:11-13 and where do you see the future tense ?

and Paul is speaking of 2 resurrections is verse 11 that have not yet happened !!

dan p

The first one happened when we were saved, when we were raised unto eternal life.

Col. 2:12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​

​

So Paul isn’t talking about salvation, or losing salvation, but sanctification which will be right up until death. Probably past that time, but it seems like Paul is ready to be done in this body of flesh….even though he makes it clear he isn’t giving up. He presses on to that high mark, which is being made holy - sanctification.

​

Phil. 3:13-14. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.​

 

[glorydaz]

Philippians 3:9-13 KJV — And be found (future tense) in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him (future tense), and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain (future tense) unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained (not past tense), either were already perfect (not already made perfect): but I follow after, if that I may apprehend (future tense) that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended (not past tense): but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind (I'm not saved by what I've done in the past), and reaching forth unto those things which are before (future tense).

Faith in Jesus Christ isn't a past action, but a present reality. If it ceases being a present reality, the future hope for us is suspect.

What I mean is that if we stop believing in His advent, death, burial, and resurrection, and it's applicability to us, we can no longer be sure of our salvation. Our salvation is not assured by an act of belief some years ago.

We are found in him right now, so your tenses are off. But, you’re spot on with faith being a present reality.

Plus, Christ is faithful even when we are not.
He will never leave us or forsake us.

It’s best everyone make their calling an election sure, however.

 

[Derf]

We are found in him right now, so your tenses are off. But, you’re spot on with faith being a present reality.

Plus, Christ is faithful even when we are not.
He will never leave us or forsake us.

It’s best everyone make their calling an election sure, however.

I just don't think it makes sense to think that God is faithful to save us when we don't believe in Him anymore. That's not to say that we don't always act out our faith correctly, but if someone once believed, then no longer believes, what does that make him? Certainly not a "believer". Our salvation is not based on something we did in the past, but our belief in something He did in the past. So if our belief in that thing stops, He is still faithful to all believers...but not necessarily to unbelievers.

 

[glorydaz]

I just don't think it makes sense to think that God is faithful to save us when we don't believe in Him anymore. That's not to say that we don't always act out our faith correctly, but if someone once believed, then no longer believes, what does that make him? Certainly not a "believer". Our salvation is not based on something we did in the past, but our belief in something He did in the past. So if our belief in that thing stops, He is still faithful to all believers...but not necessarily to unbelievers.

I think the difference would be if it’s something WE did in the past. If we walked down the aisle, or went under the water, or decided there must be a God, and maybe that is Jesus, then that isn’t true salvation. Which is why Paul warns to make our calling and election sure. People can also fall away for any period of time, so it’s not easy to tell, but one thing we can be sure of is His word. If He bought us, we are His, and He is able to keep us, even when we fall short or grief the Spirit.

​

2 Tim. 2:3​

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.​

​

Part of saving faith is knowing we are in His hands, and He will perform the work in us.

​

Phil. 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

 

[DAN P]

"Not happened yet" = future tense.

and if a Greek word is in the future tense the Greek will say so and that means you are wrong >

the reason is because the Israel resurrection nor the body of Christ has departed !!

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

and if a Greek word is in the future tense the Greek will say so and that means you are wrong >

the reason is because the Israel resurrection nor the body of Christ has departed !!

dan p

Philippians 3:11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.​

​

Ah yes. Expecting the rapture when the dead in Christ shall be raised first. And, of course, Israel will come after.

 

[Derf]

and if a Greek word is in the future tense the Greek will say so and that means you are wrong >

the reason is because the Israel resurrection nor the body of Christ has departed !!

dan p

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you reiterate?

 

[DAN P]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you reiterate?

I mean that the resurrection of Israel has not yet happened and I have yet to see ??

and the resurrection of the body of Christ has yet to happen either , unless you seen that happened !!

the departure happens first

then the resurrection of Israel Eze 37;1-28 !!

dan p

 

[Derf]

I mean that the resurrection of Israel has not yet happened and I have yet to see ??

and the resurrection of the body of Christ has yet to happen either , unless you seen that happened !!

the departure happens first

then the resurrection of Israel Eze 37;1-28 !!

dan p

Then they would all be future events.

 

[glorydaz]

Then they would all be future events.

Maybe one refers to this.

The first one happened when we were saved, when we were raised unto eternal life. I don’t know if risen with Him would be considered a resurrection. I doubt it.

Col. 2:12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Derf]

Maybe one refers to this.

The first one happened when we were saved, when we were raised unto eternal life. I don’t know if risen with Him would be considered a resurrection. I doubt it.

Col. 2:12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Don't you think the use of the word "faith" with respect to "the operation of God" is speaking of the future reality (remember what "faith" means) of our own resurrection based on the already witnessed operation of God in the resurrection of Christ. So we are risen with Him in that He is risen, and we are assured that we will, too.

 

[glorydaz]

Hmmm

Don't you think the use of the word "faith" with respect to "the operation of God" is speaking of the future reality (remember what "faith" means) of our own resurrection based on the already witnessed operation of God in the resurrection of Christ. So we are risen with Him in that He is risen, and we are assured that we will, too.

I believe that term operation of God is referring to that circumcision made without hands. That circumcision of our heart through faith. So, I believe it’s talking about that new man.

Romans 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.​

 

[Derf]

Hmmm

I believe that term operation of God is referring to that circumcision made without hands. That circumcision of our heart through faith. So, I believe it’s talking about that new man.

Romans 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.​

Perhaps, but you had to jump to Romans to make the connection.

 

[glorydaz]

Perhaps, but you had to jump to Romans to make the connection.

No, I just jumped there to show you.

That “operation of God” made a big impact on me when I first encountered it….right here on TOL if I remember correctly. Long ago and far away.

In fact, I have come to believe that is one of the signs of the new covenant being fulfilled in us. Remember how the kingdom of God is within you? Remember how the laws of God will be written in our hearts and we will require no man to teach us? I say we because we were able to skip ahead of Israel. That is kingdom reality. We, as the church, are tasting of that truth today. Christ in us….the hope of Glory.

 

[Derf]

No, I just jumped there to show you.

That “operation of God” made a big impact on me when I first encountered it….right here on TOL if I remember correctly. Long ago and far away.

In fact, I have come to believe that is one of the signs of the new covenant being fulfilled in us. Remember how the kingdom of God is within you? Remember how the laws of God will be written in our hearts and we will require no man to teach us? I say we because we were able to skip ahead of Israel. That is kingdom reality. We, as the church, are tasting of that truth today. Christ in us….the hope of Glory.

Right, the hope of glory. We have assurance of our faith in that the Holy Spirit is within us, a downpayment of what us to come, that is, the breath of God that will be breathed into us forever at the resurrection. That's why it is "faith" (the substance of things hoped for) now, because we don't have it fully yet. Just a "taste", as you said.