Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Robert Pate]

Of course it does. How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born? Answer is that it is not possible to have faith and trust in a God that would do such a thing.

Calvinism is not teachable and is not believable. The Bible teaches that God is kind, loving, just and merciful in all of his dealings with fallen man. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING TOWARD US and is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

How can a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, predestinate people to hell before they are ever born? Does that make sense to you? And then in Hebrews 2:9 the scripture says... "That he by the grace of God should taste death for everyone". If Jesus has tasted death for everyone, then salvation has been provided for everyone.

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they are born? Not the God of the Bible. King David probably wrote more about the mercy of God than anyone. "Give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever" Psalm 136:1. The following 25 verses all end with "His mercy endureth for ever".

The God of the Bible is the great provisional God. He provides salvation for his fallen creatures by sending has Son Jesus Christ into the world to atone for their sins. God gives and we receive. Everything that we own comes from God. It was placed here on the earth when he created the earth. He knew what we would need. Your home, your car, even your diamond ring are all gifts from God. Why would you believe that he hasn't provided salvation and that you have to be predestinated?

 

[beloved57]

Of course it does. How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born? Answer is that it is not possible to have faith and trust in a God that would do such a thing.

Calvinism is not teachable and is not believable. The Bible teaches that God is kind, loving, just and merciful in all of his dealings with fallen man. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING TOWARD US and is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

How can a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, predestinate people to hell before they are ever born? Does that make sense to you? And then in Hebrews 2:9 the scripture says... "That he by the grace of God should taste death for everyone". If Jesus has tasted death for everyone, then salvation has been provided for everyone.

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they are born? Not the God of the Bible. King David probably wrote more about the mercy of God than anyone. "Give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever" Psalm 136:1. The following 25 verses all end with "His mercy endureth for ever".

The God of the Bible is the great provisional God. He provides salvation for his fallen creatures by sending has Son Jesus Christ into the world to atone for their sins. God gives and we receive. Everything that we own comes from God. It was placed here on the earth when he created the earth. He knew what we would need. Your home, your car, even your diamond ring are all gifts from God. Why would you believe that he hasn't provided salvation and that you have to be predestinated?

You teach and believe that Christ death alone didn't save them He died for. That's denial of Christ!

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[Brother Ducky]

Of course not.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Doubling down as usual. Run out of topics, Robert?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...in-s-Unjust-Unmerciful-Unrighteous-Sinner-God

How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born?

So God waits until someone is born, rejects the Good News, and only then condemns them? Was God ignorant of what they would decide? If so, then God is impotent, needing to learn as things happen and get smarter every day as the open theists logically imply, and He is dependent upon His creatures, a contingent being not found in Scripture. Now if God was not ignorant of what they would decide, then what exactly is your complaint? For God knew of their decision before He created them and still let them go off on their merry way to perdition. So God was just letting man have his autonomous "free" will and just stepping aside as they chose badly? Your view assumes God to be impotent once more.

How can a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, predestinate people to hell before they are ever born?

Before they were born all existed in the loins of Adam. Adam failed in his probation to "do this and live" under the Covenant of Works. While in his loins we all sinned just as if we were there with Adam in the Garden. Who then has claim to mercy? No one. Thanks be to God that He extends mercy to His fallen children by setting His preference upon an amount no man can number for salvation via His Covenant of Grace. We are born sinners, Robert, and sin because we are sinners. We are not born morally neutral and become sinners by sinning.

God gives and we receive.

No one receives what they are incapable of receiving until God does a work within them beforehand. The lost have no moral ability to receive the righteousness of God until He first acts (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). You did not choose God, Robert. God chose you. Study more, complain less.

AMR

 

[Nanja]

The Chosen of God Eph 1:4-5 shall believe the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13 according to His Purpose Rom. 9:23: The Sheep Christ gave His Life for John 10:11,15; on His right hand Mat. 25:34.

But all the rest, the vessels of God's wrath prepared for destruction Rom. 9:22 shall never come to the Truth, but shall believe the lie 2 Thes. 2:11 that salvation is by works a person does Jude 1:4, 11: The condemned goats on His left hand Mat. 25:41.

~~~~~

 

[Robert Pate]

God created man so that he could choose. Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God. God did not predestinate Adam to sin against him. If man is nothing but a robot and God is pulling his strings then man is nothing more than a pawn in the hands of an unjust, unrighteous, tyrant God.

God provides and man is created to receive. Every breath that we take is a gift from God. The earth is supporting over 9 billion people because God is providing for us. Salvation is a free gift from God that can be accepted or rejected. God does not impose salvation on anyone. The ones that will be going to heaven are the ones that want to be with Christ. Not a bunch of Christ rejecting Calvinist that do not believe in him.

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith and anti-Christ. If you believe that these are the kind of people that are going to be in heaven you are sadly mistaken. Only those that honor God's Son and his Gospel will inherit eternal life.

 

[6days]

How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born? Answer is that it is not possible to have faith and trust in a God that would do such a thing.

Robert... why are you so obsessed with this topic? Do you realize that few if any mull this topic over before trusting Christ as their Savior. Only after we become Christians, do we concern ourselves with the theology of predestination.

Calvinism is not teachable and is not believable.

Well you realize that is not true, I'm sure. It is believable to millions of Christians.

The Bible teaches that God is kind, loving, just and merciful in all of his dealings with fallen man. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING TOWARD US and is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

I don't think anybody disagrees with that... especially if you add in that God is just.

How can a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, predestinate people to hell before they are ever born?

Uh.... Well, I'm no expert on theology, but i'm thinking that is a strawman argument. I can't imagine any Calvinist saying that God predestinates people to Hell.

The God of the Bible is the great provisional God. He provides salvation for his fallen creatures by sending has Son Jesus Christ into the world to atone for their sins. God gives and we receive. Everything that we own comes from God. It was placed here on the earth when he created the earth. He knew what we would need. Your home, your car, even your diamond ring are all gifts from God. Why would you believe that he hasn't provided salvation and that you have to be predestinated?

How about we celebrate and share our great salvation, instead of bickering about the process?

 

[serpentdove]

I can't imagine any Calvinist saying that God predestinates people to Hell.

That's right. That would be double predestination.

See:

What is double predestination?

 

[Robert Pate]

The fact remains.

There is no scripture in the Bible about God predestinating anyone to heaven or to hell.

The fact remains.

If God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. then why would anyone need to be predestinated?

The fact remains.

Why are there so many scriptures that say... Whosoever that shall call on or believe in Jesus shall be saved, if we are predestinated?

 

[Crucible]

How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born?

Calvinism does not teach that.

The Bible teaches that God is kind, loving, just and merciful in all of his dealings with fallen man.

He also killed everybody, destroyed cities, called people to war, and put mortal sinners to death.

That doesn't mean to say there wasn't good reason or that it wasn't justified, but it does render your argument obsolete- you're just tipping one side up and trying to slide Calvinism down.

 

[Nick M]

Robert... why are you so obsessed with this topic?

Because he knows the terror of the Lord and Paul was just as serious. Paul said let them go to hell.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The fact remains.

There is no scripture in the Bible about God predestinating anyone to heaven or to hell.

The fact remains.

If God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. then why would anyone need to be predestinated?

The fact remains.

Why are there so many scriptures that say... Whosoever that shall call on or believe in Jesus shall be saved, if we are predestinated?

Facts aren't generally questions. They are usually verifiable statements.

Peace

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[beloved57]

God created man so that he could choose. Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God. God did not predestinate Adam to sin against him. If man is nothing but a robot and God is pulling his strings then man is nothing more than a pawn in the hands of an unjust, unrighteous, tyrant God.

God provides and man is created to receive. Every breath that we take is a gift from God. The earth is supporting over 9 billion people because God is providing for us. Salvation is a free gift from God that can be accepted or rejected. God does not impose salvation on anyone. The ones that will be going to heaven are the ones that want to be with Christ. Not a bunch of Christ rejecting Calvinist that do not believe in him.

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith and anti-Christ. If you believe that these are the kind of people that are going to be in heaven you are sadly mistaken. Only those that honor God's Son and his Gospel will inherit eternal life.

False statements not found in scripture!

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[patrick jane]

The fact remains.

There is no scripture in the Bible about God predestinating anyone to heaven or to hell.

The fact remains.

If God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. then why would anyone need to be predestinated?

The fact remains.

Why are there so many scriptures that say... Whosoever that shall call on or believe in Jesus shall be saved, if we are predestinated?

Colossians 1:19-20 KJV -

 

[Clete]

So God waits until someone is born, rejects the Good News, and only then condemns them? Was God ignorant of what they would decide? If so, then God is impotent, needing to learn as things happen and get smarter every day as the open theists logically imply, and He is dependent upon His creatures, a contingent being not found in Scripture. Now if God was not ignorant of what they would decide, then what exactly is your complaint? For God knew of their decision before He created them and still let them go off on their merry way to perdition. So God was just letting man have his autonomous "free" will and just stepping aside as they chose badly? Your view assumes God to be impotent once more.

I am saving this quote!

It is surprisingly rare to find a Calvinist who not only straight up admits that God condemns people before they are born but also directly uses Aristotelian/Neo-Platonic Theology Proper to support it. Here we have a Calvinist "professor" stating it outright. Brilliant stuff.

Before they were born all existed in the loins of Adam. Adam failed in his probation to "do this and live" under the Covenant of Works. While in his loins we all sinned just as if we were there with Adam in the Garden. Who then has claim to mercy? No one. Thanks be to God that He extends mercy to His fallen children by setting His preference upon an amount no man can number for salvation via His Covenant of Grace. We are born sinners, Robert, and sin because we are sinners. We are not born morally neutral and become sinners by sinning.

OH! I'm saving this one too!

Here we have the 'professor' openly advocating that we are held responsible for the sins of our ancestor. The Calvinist's god truly is an unjust idol.

Here is what the God of scripture has to say about this exact issue...

Ezekiel 18:18 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

5 But if a man is just
And does what is lawful and right;
6 If he has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife,
Nor approached a woman during her impurity;
7 If he has not oppressed anyone,
But has restored to the debtor his pledge;
Has robbed no one by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
8 If he has not exacted usury
Nor taken any increase,
But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity
And executed true judgment between man and man;
9 If he has walked in My statutes
And kept My judgments faithfully—
He is just;
He shall surely live!”
Says the Lord God.​

No one receives what they are incapable of receiving until God does a work within them beforehand. The lost have no moral ability to receive the righteousness of God until He first acts (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14). You did not choose God, Robert. God chose you. Study more, complain less.

Yes, Robert! You won the great cosmic salvation lottery! Didn't you know? God chose you before time began and not because he knew your choices, as the "professor's" post might lead you to believe but for no reason! No reason at all other than that's what God wanted to do. It isn't because Jesus died for you, it's because the Calvinist's god arbitrarily chose you.
One wonders why Christ would have had to die at all in the Calvinist's religion. They believe their god and do anything at all and they'd call it justice. So why have the son of their god die a terrible death on a Roman cross? Why not just snap the holy finger of god and have the sound of it atone for whichever sins he wants atoned for?

Ah! Never mind! No point in asking such questions really! I mean, there's just no point in trying to make sense of the irrational!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[patrick jane]

I am saving this quote!

It is surprisingly rare to find a Calvinist who not only straight up admits that God condemns people before they are born but also directly uses Aristotelian/Neo-Platonic Theology Proper to support it. Here we have a Calvinist "professor" stating it outright. Brilliant stuff.


OH! I'm saving this one too!

Here we have the 'professor' openly advocating that we are held responsible for the sins of our ancestor. The Calvinist's god truly is an unjust idol.

Here is what the God of scripture has to say about this exact issue...

Ezekiel 18:18 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

5 But if a man is just
And does what is lawful and right;
6 If he has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife,
Nor approached a woman during her impurity;
7 If he has not oppressed anyone,
But has restored to the debtor his pledge;
Has robbed no one by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
8 If he has not exacted usury
Nor taken any increase,
But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity
And executed true judgment between man and man;
9 If he has walked in My statutes
And kept My judgments faithfully—
He is just;
He shall surely live!”
Says the Lord God.​

Yes, Robert! You won the great cosmic salvation lottery! Didn't you know? God chose you before time began and not because he knew your choices, as the "professor's" post might lead you to believe but for no reason! No reason at all other than that's what God wanted to do. It isn't because Jesus died for you, it's because the Calvinist's god arbitrarily chose you.
One wonders why Christ would have had to die at all in the Calvinist's religion. They believe their god and do anything at all and they'd call it justice. So why have the son of their god die a terrible death on a Roman cross? Why not just snap the holy finger of god and have the sound of it atone for whichever sins he wants atoned for?

Ah! Never mind! No point in asking such questions really! I mean, if you're going to be irrational, why bother making any sense?!

Resting in Him,
Clete

POTY

 

[Robert Pate]

Calvinism is a direct attack upon the nature and character of God.

Calvinism does make God unjust. If God is unjust then he is a sinner and cannot be trusted. The Bible teaches that God is holy beyond human comprehension. A holy person always keeps his promises and his words are as good as gold and can be trusted. It is not possible to trust the God of Calvinism, he is devious. He only saves some and the damns the multitude to hell.

Every thing that God does he does corporately. He doesn't save individuals, he provides salvation for the whole world because he loves the whole world, John 3:16. Peter wrote, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" Acts 10:34. When God did elect certain persons like the prophets and the apostles he did it for a purpose. THERE IS NO ELECTION WITHOUT A PURPOSE.

Ephesians 1:4 is not about certain individuals, its about Jesus Christ. God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ. He sends Jesus Christ into the world to redeem the world and to reconcile the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Jesus is God's new creation and his new humanity. If you want to be saved you will have to be found "In Christ". "Therefore if any man BE IN CHRIST he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. If you are not found to "In Christ" in the judgment you will perish.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Of course it does. How is one going to trust in God and his Son Jesus Christ and then believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born? Answer is that it is not possible to have faith and trust in a God that would do such a thing.

Calvinism is not teachable and is not believable. The Bible teaches that God is kind, loving, just and merciful in all of his dealings with fallen man. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some men count slackness; but is LONGSUFFERING TOWARD US and is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.

How can a God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16, predestinate people to hell before they are ever born? Does that make sense to you? And then in Hebrews 2:9 the scripture says... "That he by the grace of God should taste death for everyone". If Jesus has tasted death for everyone, then salvation has been provided for everyone.

What kind of a God would predestinate people to hell before they are born? Not the God of the Bible. King David probably wrote more about the mercy of God than anyone. "Give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever" Psalm 136:1. The following 25 verses all end with "His mercy endureth for ever".

The God of the Bible is the great provisional God. He provides salvation for his fallen creatures by sending has Son Jesus Christ into the world to atone for their sins. God gives and we receive. Everything that we own comes from God. It was placed here on the earth when he created the earth. He knew what we would need. Your home, your car, even your diamond ring are all gifts from God. Why would you believe that he hasn't provided salvation and that you have to be predestinated?

We must, however, by our free will, place our faith in Christ as our Savior, after hearing the Gospel. Salvation isn't universal.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You teach and believe that Christ death alone didn't save them He died for. That's denial of Christ!

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Your "Religion" is BOGUS.

 

[Clete]

Calvinism does not teach that.

If it did, would you reject it?

He also killed everybody, destroyed cities, called people to war, and put mortal sinners to death.

All souls belong to God, Crucible. Physical death is not the end for us nor does God guarantee our next breath. It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment. Calvinists would have us believe that the biblical author got that wrong and that we are condemned before we ever existed (nevermind born). But in any case, it is not unjust for our Creator to bring us from this stage of life to the next whenever He sees fit to do so. Punishing us in Hell for no reason at all, that would be unjust.

That doesn't mean to say there wasn't good reason or that it wasn't justified, but it does render your argument obsolete- you're just tipping one side up and trying to slide Calvinism down.

He is doing no such thing. You either misunderstand his argument or, more likely, you misunderstan Calvinism.

Resting in Him,
Clete