Contraceptives

Jacob

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Today is Shishi Ziv 19. It is Yom. Omer 34.

Abortion is wrong according to God's Law, the Torah, in all cases. Neither should anyone use contraceptives.

Punishment according to God's Law makes sense, but this is not abortion and no one should choose to use contraceptives.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Jacob

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Banned
Use of contraceptives even in marriage destroys life thought of as potential life by many. Often use of contraceptives prevents conception.
 

AHPeeb

New member
The potential for life is not the same as life. You can't kill something that isn't alive and I would even say that human beings can't stop something that God wants to be alive, from living.

People have gotten pregnant while on contraceptives and vice-versa, people not on contraceptives have gone without getting pregnant. Ultimately God is in control of what lives, what begins living, and what stops living. Humans have nothing to do with it.

On a side note, my wife when she was younger, was prescribed a birth control pill by her doctors to help prevent cysts she would get. It worked. She has been on birth control (a contraceptive) for health reasons for nearly 12 years now. I'd rather see her on birth control than see her in pain every couple weeks.

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Squeaky

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The potential for life is not the same as life. You can't kill something that isn't alive and I would even say that human beings can't stop something that God wants to be alive, from living.

People have gotten pregnant while on contraceptives and vice-versa, people not on contraceptives have gone without getting pregnant. Ultimately God is in control of what lives, what begins living, and what stops living. Humans have nothing to do with it.

On a side note, my wife when she was younger, was prescribed a birth control pill by her doctors to help prevent cysts she would get. It worked. She has been on birth control (a contraceptive) for health reasons for nearly 12 years now. I'd rather see her on birth control than see her in pain every couple weeks.

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I said
Some thing are only unclean to the person who says they are unclean. Not to others .

[Rom 14:14
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that [there is] nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
 

Tnkrbl123!

New member
Use of contraceptives even in marriage destroys life thought of as potential life by many. Often use of contraceptives prevents conception.


The potential for life is not the same as life. You can't kill something that isn't alive and I would even say that human beings can't stop something that God wants to be alive, from living.

People have gotten pregnant while on contraceptives and vice-versa, people not on contraceptives have gone without getting pregnant. Ultimately God is in control of what lives, what begins living, and what stops living. Humans have nothing to do with it.

On a side note, my wife when she was younger, was prescribed a birth control pill by her doctors to help prevent cysts she would get. It worked. She has been on birth control (a contraceptive) for health reasons for nearly 12 years now. I'd rather see her on birth control than see her in pain every couple weeks.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

very valid points!
And when God wants a child to be born NOTHING can stop His plans. I mean not even a virgin stopped God in the past!

And I will also add to your point about birth control for health reasons that many women are at high risk of terrible dangers from getting pregnant and will not be able to carry a child to full term and both their lives and the child's like would be in danger and would most likely kill both mother and child if a pregnancy were to happen. In which place birth control is a way to save one mother's life along with prevent a new life from death.

I do agree with Jacob with certain birth control like "Plan B" because it works 2 ways by first preventing egg and sperm from meeting.. which is not murder.. but it also works by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting which is very grey and I can see being a problem because egg and sperm have united at that point..and there is no way to know when taking that contraceptive so I would avoid it and just stick with Plan A.

But by this no birth control logic like the pill or condoms ..like you said nothing can stop God if he wants those to fail.. and by that same logic than anyone who masturbates or has nocturnal emission would be a murderer... including Jacob if he follows that reasoning.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Use of contraceptives even in marriage destroys life thought of as potential life by many. Often use of contraceptives prevents conception.

I totally disagree.

Many are starving in this world because the parents can not feed them.
 

Jacob

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very valid points!
And when God wants a child to be born NOTHING can stop His plans. I mean not even a virgin stopped God in the past!

And I will also add to your point about birth control for health reasons that many women are at high risk of terrible dangers from getting pregnant and will not be able to carry a child to full term and both their lives and the child's like would be in danger and would most likely kill both mother and child if a pregnancy were to happen. In which place birth control is a way to save one mother's life along with prevent a new life from death.

I do agree with Jacob with certain birth control like "Plan B" because it works 2 ways by first preventing egg and sperm from meeting.. which is not murder.. but it also works by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting which is very grey and I can see being a problem because egg and sperm have united at that point..and there is no way to know when taking that contraceptive so I would avoid it and just stick with Plan A.

But by this no birth control logic like the pill or condoms ..like you said nothing can stop God if he wants those to fail.. and by that same logic than anyone who masturbates or has nocturnal emission would be a murderer... including Jacob if he follows that reasoning.

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, Ziv 21. It is Laylah, Night. Omer 36.

I do not know what you are talking about, but life is still important and valuable before conception which is when many people say life starts or begins. That is why I am against all contraceptives or any use of contraceptives.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Jacob

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Banned
I totally disagree.

Many are starving in this world because the parents can not feed them.

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, Ziv 21. It is Laylah, Night. Omer 36.

keypurr,

You may not have actually done the killing yourself, but you are a murderer at heart at minimum. I do not know what influence you have had on others.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Tnkrbl123!

New member
Shalom.

Today is Rishon, Ziv 21. It is Laylah, Night. Omer 36.

I do not know what you are talking about, but life is still important and valuable before conception which is when many people say life starts or begins. That is why I am against all contraceptives or any use of contraceptives.

Shalom.

Jacob

no actually very few people say that life begins BEFORE conception actually. Because that would mean if you ever masturbate or have a nocturnal omission then you are killing...which is not true.
in fact it is MOST people that will say life life begins at the moment of conception that is the moment the sperm meets the egg. But almost nobody says life begins BEFORE that because life requires 23 Chris osomes from the mother and 23 from the Father (give or take 1 or 2) and that is required for human life. so no most people...headly any in fact would say life begins BEFORE conception. most say life begins at the MOMENT OF conception.
 

Jacob

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Banned
no actually very few people say that life begins BEFORE conception actually. Because that would mean if you ever masturbate or have a nocturnal omission then you are killing...which is not true.
in fact it is MOST people that will say life life begins at the moment of conception that is the moment the sperm meets the egg. But almost nobody says life begins BEFORE that because life requires 23 Chris osomes from the mother and 23 from the Father (give or take 1 or 2) and that is required for human life. so no most people...headly any in fact would say life begins BEFORE conception. most say life begins at the MOMENT OF conception.

I understand at the moment of conception but I disagree with you. However, you are a woman and you might not be interested or need to learn about wasting seed or any teaching on it. I cannot agree with the content of your post. However, I can agree with you that masturbation is sin. It is not something that people usually talk about if it even occurs. The Torah does spell out what is to be done in the case of a nocturnal emission, in case you need to know. Again, this is for the man. I do not know if it pertains to marriage. I see your spelling mistake or glaring error unless you intended something else. I can say that I am not an expert in genetics. However, when you say 23 and 23 I do not know what to make of it or what to make of this or if it is genetics or something else. There may be a name for it and it may have nothing to do with genetics. I do not know what to make of it or if it is true. I can agree with you that a person may be confused in the mind about what killing is taking place in regard to wasting seed or masturbation or a nocturnal emission. I do not know why you are talking about this online. Masturbation is a sin and you are a woman so unless you want to can and are able or thinking you are able to or say you are able to I do not advise becoming an expert at when and how to mention it to men in rebuke form who may or may not have engaged in this practice or sin. Men need to refrain from this practice, as I have before mentioned on the internet. However, it is not a practice of mine.
 

Tnkrbl123!

New member
I understand at the moment of conception but I disagree with you. However, you are a woman and you might not be interested or need to learn about wasting seed or any teaching on it. I cannot agree with the content of your post. However, I can agree with you that masturbation is sin. It is not something that people usually talk about if it even occurs. The Torah does spell out what is to be done in the case of a nocturnal emission, in case you need to know. Again, this is for the man. I do not know if it pertains to marriage. I see your spelling mistake or glaring error unless you intended something else. I can say that I am not an expert in genetics. However, when you say 23 and 23 I do not know what to make of it or what to make of this or if it is genetics or something else. There may be a name for it and it may have nothing to do with genetics. I do not know what to make of it or if it is true. I can agree with you that a person may be confused in the mind about what killing is taking place in regard to wasting seed or masturbation or a nocturnal emission. I do not know why you are talking about this online. Masturbation is a sin and you are a woman so unless you want to can and are able or thinking you are able to or say you are able to I do not advise becoming an expert at when and how to mention it to men in rebuke form who may or may not have engaged in this practice or sin. Men need to refrain from this practice, as I have before mentioned on the internet. However, it is not a practice of mine.


Well first please don't condemn my "glaring spelling mistake" of one word when you have "glaring grammar mistakes" in every single post you ever post. it is hypocrasy. And one spelling mistake does not effect the content of a message as innumerable grammatical errors such as yours. I would not have brought it up except you are always pointing out the mistakes others make when you make the same ones if not worse. So if you mention mine then I will point out your only to show you that is hypocritical.

Second, you brought up this topic of contraception and pre conception so mentioning masturbation and nocturnal emission is a natural part of this thread. If the Bible discusses it then there is nothing wrong with people who follow the Bible discussing it. I am not ashamed of natural bodily functions because the Lord designed our bodies in exactly that way and so why should we be ashamed of our bodies and the way they work.

Yes 23 chromosomes has to do with genetics and is very important to understanding what requirements pertain to life and so if you want to talk about life and potential life you should probably look up how life is formed inside the womb if you want to have an understanding of your own topic. It is relevant so look into it.

It does not matter if I am a woman or not because Christ says that
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

And it is also against the law to discriminate against someone on the basis of their gender, sexual orientation, religion, color of their skin etc. So please no discrimination because it is ungodly.
If a person is a man or a woman both should have at very least a basic understanding of both biological functions of both bodies and reproductive roles in order to have a discussion about contraceptives.

If you want to have a conversation about the Biblical understanding of contraception .... and you do because you created a thread about it.. then you need to have at least a basic understanding about what happens at conception in the woman's body ...because if not then you cannot take an opinion about something you have no idea about...if you do not understand the fundamental concepts of how conception works then you cannot have any opinion that is even remotely valid.

And when it comes to what the Mosaic law says about masturbation and nocturnal emission it requires a sacrifice does it not? Since you say you are Jewish have you made all of your sacrifices?
But since we do not live according to Mosaic law because we live under the covering of Christ we do not need to make sacrifices anymore. Rather we are yo confess our sins to the Lord Jesus and we are covered by HIS blood which is the once and for all sacrifice of the blood of the perfect, spotless Lamb of God. No more sacrifices are required because Jesus is the only sacrifice we need and for that we praise the name of the Lord forever and ever!
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.

Then I said, 'Here I am-it is written about me in the scroll- I have come to do your will, my God.' "First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them"-though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all!!!!"

Hebrews 10:1-10
 

Jacob

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Banned
Well first please don't condemn my "glaring spelling mistake" of one word when you have "glaring grammar mistakes" in every single post you ever post. it is hypocrasy. And one spelling mistake does not effect the content of a message as innumerable grammatical errors such as yours. I would not have brought it up except you are always pointing out the mistakes others make when you make the same ones if not worse. So if you mention mine then I will point out your only to show you that is hypocritical.

Second, you brought up this topic of contraception and pre conception so mentioning masturbation and nocturnal emission is a natural part of this thread. If the Bible discusses it then there is nothing wrong with people who follow the Bible discussing it. I am not ashamed of natural bodily functions because the Lord designed our bodies in exactly that way and so why should we be ashamed of our bodies and the way they work.

Yes 23 chromosomes has to do with genetics and is very important to understanding what requirements pertain to life and so if you want to talk about life and potential life you should probably look up how life is formed inside the womb if you want to have an understanding of your own topic. It is relevant so look into it.

It does not matter if I am a woman or not because Christ says that
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

And it is also against the law to discriminate against someone on the basis of their gender, sexual orientation, religion, color of their skin etc. So please no discrimination because it is ungodly.
If a person is a man or a woman both should have at very least a basic understanding of both biological functions of both bodies and reproductive roles in order to have a discussion about contraceptives.

If you want to have a conversation about the Biblical understanding of contraception .... and you do because you created a thread about it.. then you need to have at least a basic understanding about what happens at conception in the woman's body ...because if not then you cannot take an opinion about something you have no idea about...if you do not understand the fundamental concepts of how conception works then you cannot have any opinion that is even remotely valid.

And when it comes to what the Mosaic law says about masturbation and nocturnal emission it requires a sacrifice does it not? Since you say you are Jewish have you made all of your sacrifices?
But since we do not live according to Mosaic law because we live under the covering of Christ we do not need to make sacrifices anymore. Rather we are yo confess our sins to the Lord Jesus and we are covered by HIS blood which is the once and for all sacrifice of the blood of the perfect, spotless Lamb of God. No more sacrifices are required because Jesus is the only sacrifice we need and for that we praise the name of the Lord forever and ever!
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.

Then I said, 'Here I am-it is written about me in the scroll- I have come to do your will, my God.' "First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them"-though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all!!!!"

Hebrews 10:1-10

I do not know what to make of your post or of your mention of grammar or grammatical mistakes. I also am not seeing what you are talking about, what you think or believe is in scripture. Masturbation is not mentioned in scripture, but it is still a sin. As for a nocturnal emission you should read in the Torah about it if you want to know what is required. Read about women and do what God requires of you with your husband unless you are unmarried and still have something to deal with. It is for you to observe the Torah, no anyone else, but your instruction apart from the congregation where you can hear the Torah read you are to receive instruction from your husband at home. Hopefully there is good teaching, but it is not for you to interject. Some instruction relates to what a married man and woman need to do and some instruction is for men and some for women pertaining to bodily functions separate or apart from what is required in regard to or pertaining to sex between a man and his wife.

I am a firm believer in following, observing, all that is required in regard to sacrifice according to the Torah. As a Jew this is part of my observance, but I am not married and we do not have a temple. As for the specific instruction that would or has pertained to me I do not always see the same thing in the text, even in my Chumash (which has the Torah), even being unmarried and having never had sex. The Mosaic law, yes. And the New Covenant. Now you are not married to me and I do not intend to marry you. I am of Israel and the United States of America. And it is night, the first day of the week, while I understand that you are in Canada. If you have a reason for addressing me such, please state your reason so that I can resolve it for you if possible. Otherwise, consider it addressed and move on with it and move on in your life. I have not sacrificed due to no temple, if that is a sufficient reason. However, a temple may not be required. And prayer and learning about sacrifice may be sufficient to merit a reward from God. To be a Jew, a person needs to accept sacrifice. It is one of the things that a person needs to accept. Possibly or maybe not.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Jacob

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It is not a natural part of this thread. Contraceptives do not involve either of these.
 

beameup

New member
Shalom.

Today is Rishon, Ziv 21. It is Laylah, Night. Omer 36.

I do not know what you are talking about, but life is still important and valuable before conception which is when many people say life starts or begins. That is why I am against all contraceptives or any use of contraceptives.

Shalom.

Jacob

I doubt you have ever been married or in a serious relationship. One reason is that you have stated that you do not even talk to women. You are like a Catholic Priest giving advice on sex between married couples... something you know nothing about.
My previous girlfriend gets ovarian cysts. The "birth control pill" is a normal female hormone. She takes "the pill" as a hormone treatment and it prevents her getting ovarian cysts.
PS: There are Orthodox Jews that believe that "life" begins when the baby takes its first breath. This is based on the fact that Adam became a "living soul" by God's breath (ruach elohim).
 
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Jacob

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Banned
I doubt you have ever been married or in a serious relationship. One reason is that you have stated that you do not even talk to women. You are like a Catholic Priest giving advice on sex between married couples... something you know nothing about.
My previous girlfriend gets ovarian cysts. The "birth control pill" is a normal female hormone. She takes "the pill" as a hormone treatment and it prevents her getting ovarian cysts.
PS: There are Orthodox Jews that believe that "life" begins when the baby takes its first breath. This is based on the fact that Adam because a "living soul" by God's breath (ruach elohim).

You are incorrect. On all accounts.

I am not married, true. As for a relationship, I never want to have one. I may possibly get married some day.

I am not a Catholic Priest. That is an insult that you would say such a thing to me. I am not Catholic. I am of the tribe of Levi. I am a Jew. Also, contraceptives have nothing to do with sex. Sex is a procreative act. Contraceptives are contrary to this.

I do not know what to say about the person that you have identified. I do not recommend anyone to do anything of the sort.

Life begins when a person is born into this world. However, we learn from Adam we don't take it to mean that life begins at birth with a child's first breath.

Life begins at the moment of conception.

And, life begins or exists even before the moment of conception, for more than that which impregnates the woman. I am speaking of a man's sperm or seed. There is also seed or offspring, with attention to the word seed, though I do not know if all would agree that seed and offspring are the same word or describe the same thing, progeny.

I am not married and I have never had sex. However, that would not keep me from communicating that contraceptive use is wrong. Contraceptives were not designed for sex, they were designed to prevent impregnation. Creating or making children, sons and daughters, is different from procreation if it (procreation) is viewed as religious or Catholic. Parents and God are involved in the creation of each and every child, baby, boy or girl. Male or female.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Shalom.

Today is Rishon, Ziv 21. It is Laylah, Night. Omer 36.

keypurr,

You may not have actually done the killing yourself, but you are a murderer at heart at minimum. I do not know what influence you have had on others.

Shalom.

Jacob

Your entitled to your opinion friend but you can not kill what does not exist.

You should not judge the folks who disagree Jacob.
 

Jacob

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Banned
Your entitled to your opinion friend but you can not kill what does not exist.

You should not judge the folks who disagree Jacob.

Today is Sheni (Second) Ziv 22. It is Boker, Morning. It is Yom, Day. Omer 37.

Your grammar is incorrect. You may have meant You're meaning You are. However, what is it that you are saying does not exist? What are you fighting for to say that someone disagrees with something and not to judge?
 

beameup

New member
You are incorrect. I do not know what to say about the person that you have identified. I do not recommend anyone to do anything of the sort.
Life begins at the moment of conception.
And, life begins or exists even before the moment of conception, for more than that which impregnates the woman.

If a person injures a pregnant woman, so that she has a miscarriage, what is the person's punishment?
Put that in your Torah and see what comes out.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
An infertile egg is not a life form.

It's a waste product that will be eliminated.
 

Jacob

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If a person injures a pregnant woman, so that she has a miscarriage, what is the person's punishment?
Put that in your Torah and see what comes out.

Shalom.

Today is Shlishli Ziv 23. It is Yom, Day. Omer 38

Who is the injury to? How does it read?
 
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