Clete's POTD 5-15-06

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Clete

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Every Christian on the planet should be made to read the following post!

Bob Hill said:
Clete,

This is all I have on that subject.

You Cannot Live the Christian Life

In my years of being a Christian, I have found out one thing to be very certain. You cannot live the Christian life. This is an absolute. I have found this to be the truth after many years. I have tried everything you can imagine. I haven’t really made much progress. I can remember when our church was trying to follow Brother Lawrence’s principles about practicing the presence of God. I have been meditating on the word of God for years and years and years and years. Yet when I look at my attitudes inside – I’m not talking about the outward appearance, I can make that look pretty good, sometimes – but when I look at the inside, I believe I’ve made very little progress. Look at Peter. He declared before the crucifixion, “No matter if everybody forsakes you, I won’t.” Well, after he denied Christ three times, the rooster crowed and Peter realized that he couldn’t live the Christian life either – until the power of the Holy Spirit came upon him at Pentecost. Then He was a different man. What was the secret Peter found out? He knew everything Jesus taught him in three years of discipleship. But until the Holy Spirit came in power, he was bankrupt. Do you identify with Peter and me? Have you tried to live the Christian life only to find it’s impossible?

I can remember preaching a sermon titled, “The Christian Life Isn’t Difficult, It’s Impossible.” The conclusion of that sermon was to feed on God’s word. Although it helped, it still wasn’t the answer. So, where can we look for help?

The first place I think of is the epistles of Paul. In the middle of the record of his struggle to live the Christian life, Paul said in Philippians 3:10, “that I may know Him”. That was his life long goal. For the last two years, the main theme in my discipleship groups has been to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength, and with all our mind. Finally, that’s my goal. I say, “finally,” because it has taken me so many years to realize this vital truth. Just as important, I realize that we must look at the only one who lived the Christian life in this world. If we want to see how Jesus Christ lived His life in this world, the gospels is the place to go. If we are to know Him, we have to go back to the gospels to see what He was like, what He did, and what He said, because I want to get to know Him better.

It’s amazing what we find. Even the Son said He could not live the Christian life. Do you realize this? The Son actually said that? Now let’s stop and think about that for a minute. You might think that you could maybe live the Christian life. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God the Son, when He was on the earth as a human, said He could not live the Christian life. In John 5:19,20, He said, “the Son can do nothing of Himself”. Now, if He is trying to live the Christian life, how can He do it? He says He can’t do it, doesn’t He? (I’m indebted to Gene Edwards’ first six chapters of his book, The Secret to the Christian Life, The Seed Sowers Christian Books Publishing House, Box 3368, Auburn, Maine, 04212, 1991.)

It continues, “but what He sees the Father do, 20 for the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does.” I hate to tell you – after being saved for 45 years, being a pastor for 24 and a youth leader the other 21 – but this is a totally knew idea to me. It’s like – where have I been? Where have I been? Christ, out of Himself, could do nothing. When we think on this and then realize that Christ could do nothing from Himself, it is a liberating knowledge. That’s why I can’t do it.

As we continue reading what our Lord said and thought, the impact for the Christian life is astonishing. In John 5:30, He said, “I can from Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.” So, Jesus Christ could not do it Himself. He always relied on the Father. His whole time on earth was lived in communion with the Father. Constantly, everything He did – He was always looking to the Father. The Father was indwelling Him by means of the Spirit. And yet we think – call me if you think I’m wrong – we think we can live the Christian life – we can do that if we do the right things. I know – I hate to say it – I know that’s what I thought. And the end of that trail is failure, and I’ve experienced that.

Can you imagine this: Although He was the God of the universe, incarnate, He couldn’t do anything by Himself. And yet, we think we can live the Christian life if we do the right things. Christ’s whole “Christian life” was lived by the power of His Father. I could have titled this sermon, “The Secret of the Christian Life.” But so many others have written books with that title, and they didn’t help me, so I didn’t want to tell you that. I want to tell you “You Cannot Live the Christian Life.” You can’t! You can’t!

Now, even in His death, consider this. He was looking at His death. It was going to be soon. So He said to His disciples, “Let’s go to the garden, I want to pray.” So what did He say when He prayed? He said, “If it’s possible, let this cup pass from Me.” But He didn’t stop there, did He? He was in constant communion with His Father, and He said, “Nevertheless, not my will, but your will be done.” Wow! He conformed His will to the Father’s. His death was according to the Father’s will, not His own. That’s why He said in John 8:28, again, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He (the Messiah) and that I do nothing from Myself”.

When we think we’re doing the Christian life, what do we do? We say, oh, well, I can do that, and we pat ourselves on the back for being such a good Christian. Yet, Christ said, “I do nothing from Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.” He was in communion with the Father constantly, and the Father was telling Him what to do. And He always did it.

Our Lord was in constant fellowship with the Father. It seems that God inspired John to write about the secret of the Christian life, and I expected to find it in Paul. Well, it’s there, too. But the real stuff, here, is in John, because it says over and over that Jesus Christ, the Son of God lived His life on earth in total dependence on the Father. The theme of total dependence continues in John 14:10,11, “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.”

In the same way, people may not be able to believe that the Father is dwelling in us. Just reflect and put yourself in your routine for a week. People are watching you, and they say “Wow! look at the works of God.” And yet, that’s what Christ said. And that’s what He wants us to be. He wants the works of the Father to be displayed in us rather than our fleshy works. We can produce those good works to some extent by following rules, but let’s not fool ourselves – they’re works of the flesh, not the Father’s. We can not live the Christian life. We can not live the Christian life, but when they see His works in us they should believe – that is, if they are His works rather than our own fleshy works.

He can live it in us. He can live this life in us. You may think, “Well, what’s the difference? He’s living it, but I’m doing it. No! No! No! That’s wrong! That’s where I’ve had it all wrong. In Philippians 2:12,13 God inspired Paul to write, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
We produce it in our lives by concentrating on loving Him. Then He does it. Without our part, God is hindered. Consider Romans 8:28. [NKJ] “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” [I disagree. My translation follows.] We know that He works with those loving God, all things, sunergei, unto good, with those who are called according to [His] purpose. God works with us. We have to work with God. When we love Him, He can produce His life in us. He is always working in the believer, but we do not always let Him work in us. Look up the word sunergei, Strong’s 4903, sunergeo. You’ll see it means “work together with, work with”.

God will live it in us, if we let Him, for later, in John 14:23, He said to His apostles, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” Now who is the “We”, here? First you read the Holy Spirit is coming, then the Father, then, We – God is coming. He came to live in you and me. And we’re not awestruck by this. We think, yea, of course.

Finally, in John 15:5, He said, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” No matter how we look at that. With the emphasis on the “can”, or the “nothing”, we still can do nothing. I have felt and thought I could do many things without total reliance upon God. Haven’t you? It’s bankrupt, just like Peter, yet we seem to think we can do spiritual things without Him. Therefore, I believe the only way we can live the Christian life, is to follow Christ’s directions when He was on earth and when He ascended and spoke again through the Apostle Paul. In John 17:26, Jesus said, “I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it”. Why? “that the love with which You loved Me may be in them”. Now this is awesome – that God the Father’s love, the love He had for the Son, which is eternal love, can be in us. Wow! And Jesus Christ would be in us, “and I in them.”

Not everyone wants to live for God. When man, in general, did not want God in his life, God wrote Romans 1:28 through Paul, “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, (thinking about God) God gave them over to a debased mind,” He didn’t give them a debased mind, He just allowed them to have the results of their behavior. “to do those things which are not fitting.” We have seen the results – the debauchery of a godless society.

However, you know that God had a solution for our inability. What did He do? He saved us. He demonstrated that love by sending Jesus Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners. After He saved us and sealed us, according to Rom 5:5, “the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”

Now I’m an unemotional person by temperament. I’m not a feeling person at all in my temperament. But I have been experiencing a miracle in my life – a flowing of God’s love into my being, and it’s coming out. I don’t even have to think, “O.K., I’ve gotta love my wife. It’s just coming out. And it’s neat. And I’m loving my congregation. But it’s amazing; I know it’s not me. I just say, “Whoa, what’s happening here?” And I know what the secret is. The secret is loving God. Concentrate on loving God.

Many times when I go to bed at night, I tell God why I love Him. The next thing I know, it’s morning. But now, I enjoy it so much I don’t go to sleep right away. I tell Him, these are the reasons I love you. Before, I used to run out of things. When you lie there telling Him, I think He loves to hear it. I think He loves to hear our praise from a pure heart. And, what happens? I’ll tell you what happens – He produces a miracle in your soul. He generates love in your soul and you start loving. Oh! it feels great.

But this flowing of the love of God into all parts of our life can be quenched. Here’s how it can be quenched. Your mate does or says something to you that is unexpected. You consider it negative. When you are married to someone who is exactly the opposite, like Joan and me, there will be many areas for potential conflict. If we have not been communing with the Lord when this happens, we react in the flesh, and even though our outer actions may be all right, the inner attitudes can be awful. This grieves the Spirit.

No rules can produce life. That’s exactly what Galatians 3:21 says: “If there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.” But although I realize that this verse is referring to salvation, the same can be said for the Christian life. There’s only one thing we can do. And I believe this is an absolute. We can concentrate on loving Him and having fellowship with Him. That’s what we can do. So, there is an “I can.” We can concentrate on loving God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength, and with all our mind. I can do it as I feed on His word and the Holy Spirit enables me to love Him by faith. As faith is generated in me, then, by an act of faith I can love God. That’s why I must stay in constant communion with my Father and concentrate on loving Him. The Father is the one who does it, for 1 Thessalonians 3:12 says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you.” When we let Him do this. When we concentrate on loving Him, we will be loving. We will find that this is the key to the Christian life.

That’s what Paul’s prayer for us is all about in Ephesians 3:14-19. This is my favorite passage in Ephesians. When we meditate on it, Christ is formed in our lives. When Ephesians 3:14-19 becomes real in our lives, we experience His life. Paul wrote,

For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He [the Father] would give you, according to the riches of His glory, [Now you know, He only owns a few things.] to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in our hearts through faith [by faith]; that you, being rooted and grounded in [theology?] love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height; 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge.

When I see some of the things coming out of me – it surpasses my knowledge. It blows my mind. I see miracles happening in my life. Miracles! And I thought the day of miracles was over. But it’s the stuff that’s beyond knowledge, and anything beyond knowledge is a miracle. It’s beyond my understanding.

that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Wow! Oh man! Do you see why I love this passage? We are being filled with all the fullness of God. We actually are the fullness of God according to Ephesians 1:23. And God is filling us in every way if we re loving Him. Does that mean you have to get into the word and meditate on it every day? No. Now that sure is strange coming from this writer. But, I think it means that when you trusted Jesus Christ, you heard that God loved you so much that He sent His Son to die for you. In Romans 5:8, you see that He demonstrated His love to you by sending His son to die for you. When you received your salvation, you received His love. If you would just meditate on that! Just think, if you were illiterate, you couldn’t read, but you could still meditate on loving God, and God would produce His love in you. Now, I believe reading and meditating on the word helps a lot. It helps you see who God is, how He acts, and how wonderful He is. Then you can meditate on more things about His person. I couldn’t lie in bed last night and just say, “You gave your Son to die for me,” and go no further. I can go on and tell Him, because, in fact I told Him last night, “I love You because you’re the risky God. You were willing to create free agents.” Wow! I can’t believe that. I wouldn’t do it that way. I’d want to control everybody. I would make them little robots.

That fullness of God of verse 19 is the Christian life lived by God almighty in us. When that continues to happen and we love Him, and He continues to fill us – and I do say when, not if – on a regular basis, God will live the Christian life through Jesus Christ who is formed in us. Even though Paul had not attained the perfect Christian life, that’s what he was striving for. He wrote Philippians about four years before he was killed by Rome. At that time he said he had not attained it, but His goal was to pursue the prize of the high calling. And this high calling is the Christian life.

What is your goal? Loving God with all your might is the answer. Anything else will end in failure. I know, I tried everything else. Don’t be stupid like I was. I struggled for so many years with little benefit. Concentrate on knowing and loving the one person who will produce the Christian life in you. God is the only one who knows your heart. When you are constantly in tune with Him, it’s amazing how you’ll change. You won’t do those besetting sins that no one knows about except you – and God. Why don’t you make a commitment to love Him as much as you can.

Loved by God, and trying to love Him,
Bob

Thank you so much Pastor Hill!

You have no idea how big an impact this single article had on my life!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Jesus taught the good Samaritan lived the Christian life, so it is possible. That was the whole point of the parable. It's not something you try to do, it is something you are by the indwelling of God's spirit.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Bob Hill said:
What is your goal? Loving God with all your might is the answer. Anything else will end in failure.
And how do you love God? There is only one way. ONLY ONE WAY! That is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 

Sozo

New member
elohiym said:
And how do you love God? There is only one way. ONLY ONE WAY! That is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
At what point does God reveal to you that you have loved your neighbor and God enough?
 

Clete

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elohiym said:
And how do you love God? There is only one way. ONLY ONE WAY! That is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Jesus Himself said that HE couldn't live the Christian life!!!

John 5:9 Then Jesus answered and said to them, [Jesus]“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.[/Jesus]

How about reading the post before repsonding and making yourself look silly.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Clete said:
Jesus Himself said that HE couldn't live the Christian life!!!

John 5:9 Then Jesus answered and said to them, [Jesus]“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.[/Jesus]

How about reading the post before repsonding and making yourself look silly.
I read the post, Clete. What have I said that makes me look silly? What I stated is nothing less than what Jesus taught. Do you reject his words?

Do you think we love our neighbors as ourselves in our own power? No. It is the power of God that enables us to love ones neighbor as ones self.

Maybe you can explain why Bob Hill summed up the gospel as loving God, while failing to mention that Jesus demonstrated this by loving his neighbor? Jesus taught that by loving our neighbor we love God? God Himself made it very clear that we can offer him nothing except to love our neighbor. What the hell can you do for God? How can YOU love God, Clete?

I sense that you are about to look silly. Shall we see?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Oh, and just because you or Bob Hill want to intrepret John 5:9 as Jesus claiming that he can't live the Christian life, doesn't make it true. In fact, that's a pretty silly thing to say, especially in light of the parable of the good Samaritan.
 

Clete

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No interpretation is necessary. We simply quote the verse and let it speak for itself.

Jesus said that He can do nothing of Himself and we say that we cannot live the Christian life in that exact same sense. If you understood Bob Hill to be saying anything else you misunderstood or else didn't read the article in the first place. In either case you are a silly man.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Clete said:
No interpretation is necessary. We simply quote the verse and let it speak for itself.

Jesus said that He can do nothing of Himself and we say that we cannot live the Christian life in that exact same sense. If you understood Bob Hill to be saying anything else you misunderstood or else didn't read the article in the first place. In either case you are a silly man.

Resting in Him,
Clete
To say that Christ could not live the Christian life is just plain stupid. And of course you could not answer my questions. That's okay, because I have posed the same questions to Bob Hill. Once he answers you can parrot it back to us.
 
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Clete

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elohiym said:
To say that Christ could not live the Christian life is just plain stupid.
Jesus said it not me or Pastor Hill. We just enjoy quoting Him as much as possible.

And it's more and more obvious that you did not read the article before committing yourself to this silliness.


And of course you could not answer my questions.
There was no need to answer them directly. Jesus did not contradict Himself and I stated plainly that we cannot live the Christian life in precisely the same sense that Jesus said that He could do nothing of Himself.
What more answer could any reasonable person want?

Oh wait! :doh:

No wonder you didn't get it! Never mind. Let me spell it out for you....

I read the post, Clete.
Not before I called you on it you didn't.

What have I said that makes me look silly?
Collect everything you've said on this thread up to this point and then close your eyes and point at some particular part of it at random. What ever you land on will suffice.

What I stated is nothing less than what Jesus taught. Do you reject his words?
Umm, that's my line.

The good Samaritan story does not in any way conflict with what Jesus said in John 5 and therefore it doesn't conflict with anything Bob Hill wrote either.

Do you think we love our neighbors as ourselves in our own power? No. It is the power of God that enables us to love ones neighbor as ones self.
This being presented as a rebuttal to Bob's article is proof that you did not read it.

Maybe you can explain why Bob Hill summed up the gospel as loving God, while failing to mention that Jesus demonstrated this by loving his neighbor?
Do you really believe that Bob would deny this point?
Again, what Jesus said in John 5 does not conflict with anything else He said at any time durring His Earthly ministry including what He said in Mark 12.

Jesus taught that by loving our neighbor we love God?
This is over simplified and could mean about a thousand different things. As such it is unfalsifiable. However true it is, it is also true that our love for God is not precisely the same thing as loving our neighbor. Mark 12 presents TWO commandments not just one. The two are obviously related but they are not precisely the same thing.

Further, to love God and to love your neighbor was Jesus' summation of the law which we are completely incapable of keeping. WE CANNOT DO IT! You cannot do it. YOU cannot do it. It cannot be done at all by anyone other than God Himself. Even Jesus had to continually submit His will to that of the Father's while in His fleshly tabernacle.

God Himself made it very clear that we can offer him nothing except to love our neighbor.
No, He said we are to love Him FIRST AND love our neighbor as ourselves.

That's two things not just one.

What the hell can you do for God?
Nothing except love Him. And watch your language.

How can YOU love God, Clete?
I can love God the same way I love anyone. I choose to prefer God over all others. I desire not only to have a relationship with Him but for that relationship to grow and become more and more vital and personally meaningful to us both. Of course my flesh gets in the way and thus I must learn to continually walk according to the Spirit of God by faith. That is I must continually remember that in spite of my flesh I am a blood bought adopted son of the Most High God in Him and that because of my position in Him I am fully accepted and totally holy and pure in His sight. I accept this spiritual fact by faith and by this act of faith I love God and He then lives His life through me. This is the only way one is able to truly love his neighbor. Any other way, even if one finds initial success, will eventually end in failure - God Himself will see to that. You very simply cannot live the Christian life. As an unbeliever it's obviously not possible and as a Christian, God will not let you.


That's okay, because I have posed the same questions to Bob Hill. Once he answers you can parrot it back to us.
Bob Hill has likely forgotten more about the Bible than I will ever know. It would be an honor for me to parrot most anything he says. If I did nothing for the rest of my life but parrot the words, work and attitude of pastor Bob Hill I will not have lived in vain. Not because he is anything particularly special in and of himself, but only because he seeks nothing but the highest and best for himself, and those around him by dedicating himself to the service of God and the preaching of His Word rightly divided. I would be hard pressed to find a more worthy mentor than Pastor Bob Hill and I'll take any accusation of "parroting" him as high praise.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Vaquero45

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Great article. Thanks for the link Clete, and thanks to Pastor Hill. I think it's awesome. :thumb:
 
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