Christ And Capital Punishment

WeberHome

New member
-
There's always a number of people out and about who truly believe that
Christ wasn't obligated to comply with the covenant that Yhvh's people
agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Take capital punishment for example. I encounter people all the time who
sincerely believe that Christ opposed it. But were Christ to oppose capital
punishment, he would incur a curse upon himself.

†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be he who will not uphold the terms of this law and
observe them.

The grammatical tense of that curse is present rather than future, indicating
that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period.

And then there are people who sincerely believe that Christ was a reformer;
viz: his brand of religious philosophy was kinder, gentler, and more loving
and understanding than the thunder and lightening of the Old Testament's
God. But Christ claimed that he and God were unified.

†. John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but
the will of Him who sent me

†. John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me
alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

The ultimate capital punishment pending is the lake of brimstone featured at
Rev 20:10-15 wherein people will undergo termination akin to a foundry
worker falling into a vat of molten iron. The administrator won't be the Old
Testament's thunder and lightening God, no, the administrator of that
horrifying scene will be the kinder, gentler, and more loving and
understanding Jesus.


†. John 5:22 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to
the Son

†. Acts 17:31 . . He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in
righteousness through a man whom He has appointed, having furnished
proof to all men by raising him from the dead.

The Great White Throne event won't be a peaceful scene. People will be
literally pale with terror, lips trembling, mouths too dry to speak; screaming,
shrieking, bellowing, sobbing and yelping-- eyes darting about looking for
something, anything, to clutch and cling to as a force they cannot resist
drags them off to capital punishment in a flaming substance where their
incinerated remains will be perpetual nourishment for a curious species of
fire-proof worm.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship Me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter loathing.

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not totally
unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of
176° F --hot enough to destroy salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer; and Christ fully approves because
he and the Old Testament's God are unified.

†. John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of Him who sent me

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theophilus

Well-known member
-
There's always a number of people out and about who truly believe that
Christ wasn't obligated to comply with the covenant that Yhvh's people
agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Take capital punishment for example. I encounter people all the time who
sincerely believe that Christ opposed it. But were Christ to oppose capital
punishment, he would incur a curse upon himself.

†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be he who will not uphold the terms of this law and
observe them.

The grammatical tense of that curse is present rather than future, indicating
that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period.

And then there are people who sincerely believe that Christ was a reformer;
viz: his brand of religious philosophy was kinder, gentler, and more loving
and understanding than the thunder and lightening of the Old Testament's
God. But Christ claimed that he and God were unified.

†. John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but
the will of Him who sent me

†. John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me
alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

The ultimate capital punishment pending is the lake of brimstone featured at
Rev 20:10-15 wherein people will undergo termination akin to a foundry
worker falling into a vat of molten iron. The administrator won't be the Old
Testament's thunder and lightening God, no, the administrator of that
horrifying scene will be the kinder, gentler, and more loving and
understanding Jesus.


†. John 5:22 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to
the Son

†. Acts 17:31 . . He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in
righteousness through a man whom He has appointed, having furnished
proof to all men by raising him from the dead.

The Great White Throne event won't be a peaceful scene. People will be
literally pale with terror, lips trembling, mouths too dry to speak; screaming,
shrieking, bellowing, sobbing and yelping-- eyes darting about looking for
something, anything, to clutch and cling to as a force they cannot resist
drags them off to capital punishment in a flaming substance where their
incinerated remains will be perpetual nourishment for a curious species of
fire-proof worm.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship Me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter loathing.

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not totally
unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of
176° F --hot enough to destroy salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer; and Christ fully approves because
he and the Old Testament's God are unified.

†. John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of Him who sent me

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Romans 13:1-4
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Luk 19:27 But those who are my enemies, who did not desire that I should reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me. "
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
"you who are without sin cast the first stone." There are sins worthy of death, but man is not worthy to enforce it. God will judge in the end times. I believe the death penalty is an unfair system. DNA evidence has proven that some on death row were innocent. How many have been unjustly put to death. Those with money can hire a better lawyer/s than those without and get off.
 

daqq

Well-known member
-
There's always a number of people out and about who truly believe that
Christ wasn't obligated to comply with the covenant that Yhvh's people
agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Take capital punishment for example. I encounter people all the time who
sincerely believe that Christ opposed it. But were Christ to oppose capital
punishment, he would incur a curse upon himself.

†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be he who will not uphold the terms of this law and
observe them.

The grammatical tense of that curse is present rather than future, indicating
that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period.

And then there are people who sincerely believe that Christ was a reformer;
viz: his brand of religious philosophy was kinder, gentler, and more loving
and understanding than the thunder and lightening of the Old Testament's
God. But Christ claimed that he and God were unified.

†. John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but
the will of Him who sent me

†. John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me
alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

The ultimate capital punishment pending is the lake of brimstone featured at
Rev 20:10-15 wherein people will undergo termination akin to a foundry
worker falling into a vat of molten iron. The administrator won't be the Old
Testament's thunder and lightening God, no, the administrator of that
horrifying scene will be the kinder, gentler, and more loving and
understanding Jesus.


†. John 5:22 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to
the Son

†. Acts 17:31 . . He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in
righteousness through a man whom He has appointed, having furnished
proof to all men by raising him from the dead.

The Great White Throne event won't be a peaceful scene.
People will be
literally pale with terror, lips trembling, mouths too dry to speak; screaming,
shrieking, bellowing, sobbing and yelping-- eyes darting about looking for
something, anything, to clutch and cling to as a force they cannot resist
drags them off to capital punishment in a flaming substance where their
incinerated remains will be perpetual nourishment for a curious species of
fire-proof worm.


†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship Me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them with utter loathing.


A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not totally
unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of
176° F --hot enough to destroy salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer; and Christ fully approves because
he and the Old Testament's God are unified.


†. John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of Him who sent me

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

You sure have a vivd and fanciful imagination. However Yeshua quotes from Isaiah 66:24 in Mark 9:48 and the outcome you imagine appears to be the opposite of what the passage is actually teaching:

Isaiah 66:22-24 KJV
22. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

If you look at Isaiah 66:24 in the Greek Septuagint you will see that the word used for "carcasses" in the above is rendered "kola" in the Greek:

Esaias 66:24 LXX
24. και εξελευσονται και οψονται τα κωλα των ανθρωπων των παραβεβηκοτων εν εμοι ο γαρ σκωληξ αυτων ου τελευτησει και το πυρ αυτων ου σβεσθησεται και εσονται εις ορασιν παση σαρκι

Strong's Ref. #2966
Romanized kolon
Pronounced ko'-lon
from the base of GSN2849; a limb of the body (as if lopped):
KJV--carcase.

You know GSN#2849 kolazo and what that whole debate concerns, correct? Albeit from Isaiah 66:24 in the LXX the word kola, (kolon) does not mean whole body-carcasses of people but rather body parts, as in the cut off hands, or lopped off feet, or plucked out eyes, as stated by Yeshua himself in the Mark 9:42-49 passage where he quotes from this Isaiah text:

Mark 9:42-49
42. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into the Gennan, into the fire unquenchable.
44. [Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.]
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two feet to be cast into the Gennan.
46. [Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.]
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of Elohim with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the Gennan:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49. For every one shall be salted with fire, [and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt].

So then, if you take the chopping off of your own limbs as literal and physical in meaning what are you doing here still writing and looking around this forum? Are you saying that your right eye and right hand have never trespassed? Or do you not truly believe what Yeshua says in the Mark passage quoted above? How can you take only the parts you like as literal and the parts you do not want to physically perform yourself as being allegorical? Therefore the whole passage is allegorical and concerns even what Paul teaches when he writes, "Mortify your members which are upon the earth", for you are the "land" with a "house" and the "members" are your own body-part members of your own "household", and likewise Paul writes, "Mortify the deeds of the body", and it is clearly an allegory of cutting off sin from your own body-temple-house because since when you first entered into faithfulness in Messiah you and your body-temple-house are no more your own. This is the WILL OF GOD, even your sanctification, (1 Thessalonians 4:2-6 KJV) and you cannot receive the Promise until AFTER you have done the WILL OF GOD, (Hebrews 10:36 KJV). God wants to see carnage, like the hill of the foreskins in Joshua 5:3, and carcasses of body parts like in Isaiah 66:24. Time for you to get yourself a whole lotta salt and get to plucking, slicing, hacking, and chopping: Chop, chop! :crackup:

However, if you do take these words of Messiah literally, and go ahead with phsyically plucking out your right eye, chopping off your right hand, and lopping off a foot; know that their worm will surely die, and the fire of life that is in them will surely be quenched, and you will have misunderstood for the last time because you will not be receiving those carcass-members of your household back from the dead. :chuckle:
 

WeberHome

New member
-
You sure have a vivd and fanciful imagination.

No more so than the semantic sophistry you posted in #6

Your vivid and fanciful imagination is more intellectual than mine; I'll give
you that. But as far as being true and correct; it amounts to no more
than a second opinion.

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way 2 go

Well-known member
"you who are without sin cast the first stone." There are sins worthy of death, but man is not worthy to enforce it.
God instituted judges , has a book in the bible called judges
God gave the death penalty
God will judge in the end times. I believe the death penalty is an unfair system. DNA evidence has proven that some on death row were innocent. How many have been unjustly put to death.
now we have DNA so now its fair
Those with money can hire a better lawyer/s than those without and get off.
so that means the poor man should not be put death
for murder...
I'm poor your honor , oh ok you may go free :think:
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
"you who are without sin cast the first stone." There are sins worthy of death, but man is not worthy to enforce it. God will judge in the end times. I believe the death penalty is an unfair system. DNA evidence has proven that some on death row were innocent. How many have been unjustly put to death. Those with money can hire a better lawyer/s than those without and get off.

Pate started a thread about how do you know somebody has the Holy Spirit. This is an example of outside the faith.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You gad best get choppin' :)

I can do all things through Messiah Yisrael, the Holy One Yisrael, who strengthens me by his Testimony which the Father gave him from above. :)

Thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought. For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the Lord, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff. Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the Lord, and shalt glory in the Holy One Israel, (Isaiah 41:8-16).

The worm of Yakob shall never die . . . :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
-


No more so than the semantic sophistry you posted in #6

Your vivid and fanciful imagination is more intellectual than mine; I'll give
you that. But as far as being true and correct; it amounts to no more
than a second opinion.

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My understanding is anchored at the shoreline of Gennesaret with the Testimony of Yeshua and HaNavi Yeshayahu, (and the is a fire of coals with fish laid thereon). Your understanding is adrift on the Sea of the Philistines without a sail to hoist into the Ruach, (and the albatross are circling from above). :crackup:
 

WeberHome

New member
-
An incident recorded in the 8th chapter of John is sometimes appropriated to
suggest that Christ opposes capital punishment. But the incident is actually
better appropriated to show that Christ is a stickler for due process.

Long story short, a woman was brought before Christ accused of adultery;
which is normally a mandatory death offense under the terms and conditions
of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per the Old
Testament.

†. Lev 20:10 . . And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife,
even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and
the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

However; the covenant requires that no one can be given the death penalty
without the testimony of at least two witnesses.

†. Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall
he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness
he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon
him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou
shalt put the evil away from among you.

As it turned out; all the witnesses, to a man, recused themselves, leaving
none with which to build a case against the woman.

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