Caller Open, Ministries Closed

[Jefferson]

Caller Open, Ministries Closed

Monday October 24th, 2005. This is show # 211.

Best Quote of the Show:

Caller John: What happened to me yesterday at church is I was branded a heretic and pulled out of ministry because I stand for openness. And I was told I was not allowed to teach any longer at that church nor be involved in any ministry because I have an open view.

Bob Enyart: Well, John that's devastating. That truley is devastating. And there's an effort by Calvinist and other settled view adherents to try to really strong-arm Christians who believe that God is free to change the future. To strong-arm and intimidate us so that we would shut up or be silent or not open our Bibles and say, "Look at all these passages that show that God is able to change the future..."

 

[Lighthouse]

I wonder why they think God can change our minds, but He can't change His own...:think:

 

[Greywolf]

Would Bob think it "devastating" if a church were to do the same thing to a homosexual because they disagreed with homosexuality? :think:

 

[Lighthouse]

Open Theism isn't a sin, Greywolf.:doh:

 

[Greywolf]

Open Theism isn't a sin, Greywolf.:doh:

Depends who you ask.

But would you want someone in your church who promoted false views of God?

 

[Lighthouse]

What makes you think it's a false view?

 

[Greywolf]

What makes you think it's a false view?

I don't, but apparently the church in question does. Which brings me back to my question:
Would you want someone in your church who promoted false views of God?

 

[Lighthouse]

I think it depends on the view, and whether it could be argued from Scripture. If it goes completely against scripture, then I wouldn't want them there. But if they believed it is what scripture taught, then I couldn't say anything.

Of course, if I started a church I wouldn't want anyone in leadership who disagreed with some of the specific tenets of the doctrine of that church. But there are lesser tenets that if they disagreed it wouldn't be a problem. The only thing is that I would tell them they couldn't preach it is fact.

 

[Greywolf]

I think it depends on the view, and whether it could be argued from Scripture.

But as I'm sure you know, almost anything can be argued from Scripture. Heck, they used to argue the propriety of slavery from Scripture. You've seen people here argue from Scripture that God doesn't mind homosexuality.

If it goes completely against scripture, then I wouldn't want them there. But if they believed it is what scripture taught, then I couldn't say anything.

What they believed it is what scripture teaches, but you believed it goes completely against scripture?

Of course, if I started a church I wouldn't want anyone in leadership who disagreed with some of the specific tenets of the doctrine of that church. But there are lesser tenets that if they disagreed it wouldn't be a problem. The only thing is that I would tell them they couldn't preach it is fact.

And if they insisted on preaching it as fact? After all, isn't standing up for Biblical "truths" the right thing to do? And does OV vs. Calvinism count as a lesser tenet?

 

[Lighthouse]

But as I'm sure you know, almost anything can be argued from Scripture. Heck, they used to argue the propriety of slavery from Scripture. You've seen people here argue from Scripture that God doesn't mind homosexuality.

Those who argued for slavery were ignoring quite a few aspects of what the Bible said about slavery. The Bible says slavery is okay. But the way slavery worked in the early days of this nation was unBiblical.

What they believed it is what scripture teaches, but you believed it goes completely against scripture?

I meant two different things. Some things can be argued from scripture, even if they can be argued agaisnt from scripture. And if it isn't a salvational issue, or a major tenet of the doctrine of the church, then it isn't that big of a deal. But if it goes completely against the Bible, and therefore can't be argued from the Bible, then it will be a problem [i.e. men becoming Gods, or Lucifer and Jesus being brothers].

And if they insisted on preaching it as fact? After all, isn't standing up for Biblical "truths" the right thing to do? And does OV vs. Calvinism count as a lesser tenet?

If they disagree with tenets that will be preached on, then they won't be pastoring at the church.