Barry Lynn and Enyart Debate Free Speech

[Jefferson]

Barry Lynn and Enyart Debate Free Speech

This is the show from Wednesday June 18th, 2008.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

Bob Enyart - Let me ask you this: Does the right to free speech come from God or the Government? Where does it come from according to Barry Lynn?

Barry Lynn - Actually it comes from the government I hate to tell you but that's the way it's framed.

Bob Enyart - Barry, you're a traitor to Jesus Christ.

Barry Lynn - Oh, I see, okay well...

Bob Enyart - He's our Creator Barry. He's the One who gave you the right to life and the right to own property. Rights don't come from the government. If they did the government could say that you could own blacks and kill Jews.

SUMMARY:

* Americans United for Censorship: Barry Lynn and Bob Enyart debate whether the government should attempt to censor a pastor's God-given right to free speech! While Barry basically admitted that the right to life is inalienable (i.e., it cannot be transferred, sold, given away, etc.) he actually denied that the right to free speech comes from God, and he also denied that the right to life is inalienable, and in a burst of humanism, Lynn actually claimed that the right to free speech comes from the government, which of course would mean that the government could be justified in withholding or regulating as it sees fit the right to free speech. Pastor Bob Enyart, of Denver Bible Church, told Lynn of their excitement and support for Alliance Defense Fund's Pulpit Initiative in which the ADF is asking for fifty churches to preach political sermons in September to challenge regulations that intimidate many pastors into silence on some of the most crucial issues of morality. Lynn also admitted that other organizations like labor unions and chambers of commerce have tax exemption yet are permitted free speech. Also, Lynn admitted that of the many complaints he has filed against churches for supposed speech violations of government regulations, he has never filed a complaint against Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, even though it is the most high profile politically active and partisan church in the country; and further, Lynn has filed not even one single complaint his entire denomination, United Church of Christ, even though they have thousands of socially active churches. But Americans United for the Separation of Church and State is not biased... right.

Post-show Note: Because of the time constraint, Bob did not challenge Lynn's evil claim that God's Word does not consider abortion to be murder. Bob left that for another show, choosing instead to not get sidetracked, and stay focused on Lynn's work against the Christian's God-given right of free speech.

Post-show Update: Colorado's battle against the new Expansion of Prohibition law SB200 (see WorldNetDaily, Criminal crackdown targeting Christians) is "getting beyond the bathroom issue," Bruce Hausknecht, a spokesman with Focus on the Family, told WND." The censorship part of SB200 states:

Section 8. 24-34-701. "Publishing of discriminative matter forbidden. No person, being the owner, lessee, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent, or employee of [associated with] any place of public accommodation... shall publish, issue, circulate, send, distribute, give away, or display in any way, manner, or shape or by any means or method, except as provided in this section [must refer to the 'unwelcomed' clause below], any communication, paper, poster, folder, manuscript, book, pamphlet, writing, print, letter, notice, or advertisement of any kind, nature, or description THAT is intended or calculated to discriminate or actually discriminates against... SEXUAL ORIENTATION, marital status... in the matter of furnishing or neglecting or refusing to furnish to them or any one of them any lodging, housing, schooling, or tuition or any accommodation, right [like marriage], privilege [like adoption], advantage, or convenience... on account of... SEXUAL ORIENTATION, marital status... [which] is unwelcome or objectionable or not acceptable, desired, or solicited."

* Illegal BEL Flyer: Bob has been distributing an illegal Christian flyer, at Denver's People's Fair and at the Colorado State Capitol giving copies of the contraband to Governor Bill Ritter's staff and to officials with the Colorado State Police. (You can download the Illegal Enyart Flyer here.).

* Please Send Seven Sheets to ARTL: Please help American RTL welcome the DNC to Denver this summer! They need 100 people to send them seven sheets each for a top secret project called the Sheets of Shame! Can you send any sheets? If you can't send seven, can you send one or two? Can you go to a second hand store? Can you call a hotel, hospital, nursing home, motel, jail, or ask some friends? To do a proper greeting, here's what...

ARTL's DNC Welcoming Committee needs:
-What: Sheets and more sheets
- Quantity: 700 sheets
- Color: white or light colored
- Style: flat, preferably; but fitted sheets ok
- Size: queen, preferably; but others ok, especially king
- Info: Office@AmericanRTL.org or 1-888-888-ARTL
Please bring or mail your sheets to:
American RTL
1535 Grant St #303
Denver CO 80203

* Please Help Bob with a Personhood Project: If you can, please volunteer to help Bob on one of these projects:
- Team131: if you're able to spend at least five hours at your PC helping with a vital online project!
- Travel: if you can travel outside the state, in June, July, or August, for a few days and cover your own expenses, Bob will be traveling on very important out-of-state missions in support of Colorado's personhood amendment effort! Would you like to go? If so, please let ARTL know at 1-888-888-ARTL!

- Metro Team: if you're able to come out occasionally for an important project in the Denver area, please let Donna at CRTL know!

* Drive Denver's Truth Truck: Colorado Right To Life's Truth Truck coordinator, Vick Lopez, called into BEL to ask if you (yes, you!) can volunteer to drive. Please call CRTL at 303 753-9394 if you think you can drive their standard transmission Truth Truck on a two-hour route once every week or two!

Today's Resource: Have you heard about our new Bible Study of the entire Book of Judges, that presents the biblical teaching on treaties, the judiciary, and the best form of government, coming out soon on CD? Call to order Judges at 1-800-8Enyart and check out our many Bible Study resources!

 

[WizardofOz]

I have a few questions regarding the topics of this thread......

* Americans United for Censorship: Barry Lynn and Bob Enyart debate whether the government should attempt to censor a pastor's God-given right to free speech! While Barry basically admitted that the right to life is inalienable (i.e., it cannot be transferred, sold, given away, etc.) he actually denied that the right to free speech comes from God, and he also denied that the right to life is inalienable, and in a burst of humanism, Lynn actually claimed that the right to free speech comes from the government, which of course would mean that the government could be justified in withholding or regulating as it sees fit the right to free speech.

Interesting topic indeed; whether free-speech is God-given or government given.:think:

I know Jefferson cannot answer for Bob, but in assuming you agree with him or have your own opinions, I think a definition should be given as to what is meant by "free-speech". God certainly did not allow free speech, even if it is a right he can ultimately give or take away. Did mosaic Israelites have a right to free-speech?:nono:

I would also say that both Bob and Barry are correct, since while the Israelites lived in a theocracy with God as their ruler; it was a from of government nonetheless. Whether one person says the right to free-speech comes from God or man; it most certainly comes from governmental authority.

God certainly took away the right to "free" speech in some circumstances as the leader of the Israelite government.

Leviticus 24:10-23 anyone? Did this son of an Israelite mother and Egyptian father have a right to free speech? What was he stoned for?

Exodus 21:17 certainly seems like a law made against certain types of speech.

What is "free-speech"?

* Illegal BEL Flyer: Bob has been distributing an illegal Christian flyer, at Denver's People's Fair and at the Colorado State Capitol giving copies of the contraband to Governor Bill Ritter's staff and to officials with the Colorado State Police. (You can download the Illegal Enyart Flyer here.).

I know this hot-topic has been really good for business but....

On his "illegal flyer" Bob made a point of putting "Published by Bob Enyart Live, Inc., (a Colorado corporation)" at the end.

Who owns Bob Enyart Live? It may be a corporation but that does not necessarily mean it is a publicly held corporation. Can I buy stock in Bob Enyart Live?

CO SB 08-200 starts out with this language
"No person, being the owner, lessee, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent, or employee of any place of public accommodation...

How is Bob and his flyer included in this differentiation? Just because BEL is "a Colorado corporation" does not mean it is public accommodation.

Please explain to me how his flyer is illegal.

 

[Mr. 5020]

"- Team131: if you're able to spend at least five hours at your PC helping with a vital online project!"

I mentioned this in another BEL thread, but I would love to help with this.

Who should I contact??

 

[drbrumley]

Wizard, what is the legal definition of accommodation?

That word can mean different things, esp, in Bob accomadates his audience with a PUBLIC program. Maybe, hardly?

 

[WizardofOz]

Wizard, what is the legal definition of accommodation?

That word can mean different things, esp, in Bob accomadates his audience with a PUBLIC program. Maybe, hardly?

It's actually defined in the bill......

24-34-601. Discrimination in places of public accommodation.
(1) As used in this part 6, "place of public accommodation" means any
place of business engaged in any sales to the public and any place offering
services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to the public,
including but not limited to any business offering wholesale or retail sales
to the public; any place to eat, drink, sleep, or rest, or any combination
thereof; any sporting or recreational area and facility; any public
transportation facility; a barber shop, bathhouse, swimming pool, bath,
steam or massage parlor, gymnasium, or other establishment conducted to
serve the health, appearance, or physical condition of a person; a campsite
or trailer camp; a dispensary, clinic, hospital, convalescent home, or other
institution for the sick, ailing, aged, or infirm; a mortuary, undertaking
parlor, or cemetery; an educational institution; or any public building, park,
arena, theater, hall, auditorium, museum, library, exhibit, or public facility
of any kind whether indoor or outdoor. "PLACE OF PUBLIC
ACCOMMODATION" SHALL NOT INCLUDE A CHURCH, SYNAGOGUE, MOSQUE,
OR OTHER PLACE THAT IS PRINCIPALLY USED FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES.

I know the opening ""place of public accommodation" means any
place of business engaged in any sales to the public" may make some cringe but wouldn't BEL be protected by the also vague ""PLACE OF PUBLIC
ACCOMMODATION" SHALL NOT INCLUDE A CHURCH, SYNAGOGUE, MOSQUE,
OR OTHER PLACE THAT IS PRINCIPALLY USED FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES"?

Isn't Bob Enyart live a "place that is principally used for religious purposes"?:think:

But, it gets a bit clearer in section 2

"It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly
or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group,
because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, marital
status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the
goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a
place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish,
circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, ELECTRONIC, or printed
communication, notice, or advertisement which THAT indicates that the full
and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges,
advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will
be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's
patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome,
objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race,
creed, color, sex, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, marital status, national origin, or
ancestry."

So, BEL cannot refuse to sell their flyer to someone because of their sexual orientation. Is BEL going to refuse sale to someone due to their sexual orientation?

The whole uproar is about Section 8. 24-34-701

Pay close attention to about halfway down the section (the section in bold) when it talks about these restrictions and what they apply to......

24-34-701. Publishing of discriminative matter forbidden. No
person, being the owner, lessee, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent,
or employee of any place of public accommodation, resort, or amusement,
directly or indirectly, by himself or herself or through another person shall
publish, issue, circulate, send, distribute, give away, or display in any way,
manner, or shape or by any means or method, except as provided in this
section, any communication, paper, poster, folder, manuscript, book,
pamphlet, writing, print, letter, notice, or advertisement of any kind, nature,
or description which THAT is intended or calculated to discriminate or
actually discriminates against any disability, race, creed, color, sex, SEXUAL
ORIENTATION, marital status, national origin, or ancestry or against any of
the members thereof in the matter of furnishing or neglecting or refusing to
furnish to them or any one of them any lodging, housing, schooling, or
tuition or any accommodation, right, privilege, advantage, or convenience
offered to or enjoyed by the general public or which states that any of the
accommodations, rights, privileges, advantages, or conveniences of any
such place of public accommodation, resort, or amusement shall or will be
refused, withheld from, or denied to any person or class of persons.......

Bob's right to free-speech on religious grounds will be protected. He can speak out all he wants to against homosexuals adopting. His flyer is not telling social workers to discriminate against homosexuals adopting. Most of the article is language intended to link homosexuals with pedophilia. He talks more about NAMBLA than he does adoption.

It's really moot because in Section 1 of the bill (and I have posted this in a different thread) it states

"SECTION 1. Legislative declaration. The general assembly
hereby finds, determines, and declares that nothing in this act is intended to
impede or otherwise limit the protections contained in section 4 of article
II of the state constitution concerning the free exercise and enjoyment of
religious profession and worship."

So, just what does section 4 of article II of the CO state constitution say about the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship?

section 4 article II of the CO state constitution
Section 4. Religious freedom. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever hereafter be guaranteed; and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his opinions concerning religion; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness or justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state. No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship, religious sect or denomination against his consent. Nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship.[/b]

Could the state prove that Bob's flyer is inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state?:think:
He's got nothing to worry about as long as he is not suggesting action inconsistent with the "good order, peace or safety of the state".

Will you answer a direct question drbrumley - do you think Bob's flyer is illegal in the state of CO?

Could Bob print a flyer stating that he feels disabled people should not adopt? Would that flyer be illegal? Could he print a flyer stating that he feels single women should not adopt? "Sexual orientation" is just another class added to already protected classes of individuals under the already existing anti-discrimination law. Bob has a right to personal opinion and has a right to state it out loud or even print it on a flyer.

It's a dumb and unnecessary law. But, it is not going to do all the things some people seem to think. At least that's my analysis. :idunno:

I bet bibles are still being printed in CO.:thumb:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

"- Team131: if you're able to spend at least five hours at your PC helping with a vital online project!"

I mentioned this in another BEL thread, but I would love to help with this.

Who should I contact??

Call 1-888-888-ARTL during business hours.

Tell them you are a loyal TOLer and are willing to help!

God bless you!!! :up:

 

[CRASH]

This show was one of the best. Bob chewed him up and spit him out. At the end Barry was babbling incoherently....

 

[Sharri]

Call 1-888-888-ARTL during business hours.

Tell them you are a loyal TOLer and are willing to help!

God bless you!!! :up:

I called to join the team, Donna is a gem. I hope to meet her when I visit CO.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Call 1-888-888-ARTL during business hours.

Tell them you are a loyal TOLer and are willing to help!

God bless you!!! :up:

Darn, I just saw this. I hope it's not too late. I'll call in a little bit.

EDIT: Called in... hope I have the opportunity to help in the near future.