ECT Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

[Fallowtboi]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

I have understood that sin is three-fold: Behavior, Condition AND Identity.
Would it be true that in Christ, our behavior WILL change; our identity HAS changed; and our condition WILL NOT change this side of heaven?

We could also take it a step forward potentially and say Our behavior will change in Sanctification; our Identity has changed in Adoption; and our Condition though unchanged from a human perspective has been Justified by Christ.

But I am open to correction. Is that true? Does our Condition not change? Help me.

 

[jamie]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

Fallen condition?

What is a fallen condition? How did you fall?

 

[ttruscott]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

IF we were regenerated, reborn in GOD's family, then Heb 12:5-11 applies. IF we are not reborn as HIS children, then as per v8 the section does not apply to us. AS legitimate reborn children of GOD we still need to be trained in righteousness even though our rebirth has broken the grip evil has upon us and our free will is restored as per Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. What freedom are we called to if not the freedom of our will from sin? So, not enslaved but still in the grip of our memories of the pleasures and profits of sin so that we choose wrongly and must be chastised and disciplined to choose right.

But once that training is finished and we are sanctified and heaven ready and will never sin by our own choice again, then we can die and await the judgement.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

No, we now know that sin no longer has power over us.

 

[Fallowtboi]

We know that sin no longer has power over us... and yet its presence is with us until we die... right?
Sin is no longer our master and yet creation groans with anticipation for the redemption of the sons of glory.
I have the ability not to sin and yet I remain a sinner... right?

 

[Fallowtboi]

This is helpful. I hadn't considered the aspect of God's chastening... his discipline of his own children.

However, are you proposing that we die once sin has been eradicated from our souls? Or after we die in glory...
Your last sentence is confusing to me... or rather I understand it completely and disagree wholeheartedly.

 

[Fallowtboi]

The fall of mankind into a state of sin.
We sin because we are sinners.
I am quoting the Westminster Confession of Faith.

 

[Tambora]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

I have understood that sin is three-fold: Behavior, Condition AND Identity.
Would it be true that in Christ, our behavior WILL change; our identity HAS changed; and our condition WILL NOT change this side of heaven?

We could also take it a step forward potentially and say Our behavior will change in Sanctification; our Identity has changed in Adoption; and our Condition though unchanged from a human perspective has been Justified by Christ.

But I am open to correction. Is that true? Does our Condition not change? Help me.

If you are asking if one becomes a "better" person (in the way of behavior) when saved, I would say no.
According to scripture, if one breaks any little part of the law he is guilty of the whole law.
So no one is "better" than another, all have fallen short.

Christ did not die so that some men might act a little better.
Christ died so dead men could have life.

Your righteousness and obedience is not included in the equation.

Romans 5 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

That one ain't you.



So I would say your appointed POSITION (in Christ) is what sets you apart, and not your behavior.
And it is by grace (unmerited favor) that you acquire that position.
Grace cannot be earned by works.
If you earn something, it is by debt payed and not grace at all.
Debt is the opposite of grace.
Trying to earn grace voids grace altogether.
Grace is neither earned or deserved.

Romans 4 KJV​

(4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


​

Ephesians 2 KJV​

(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
​

(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Romans 11 KJV​

(6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.​

If one is relying on their own righteousness and obedience, then they are relying on the righteousness and obedience of the wrong one.


And welcome to TOL.

 

[ttruscott]

Are we still in the "misery of our fallen condition" after we are regenerated?

Regeneration would seem to free us from the addictive enslavement of evil so our free will is returned but it apparently doesn't free us from our memories of the pleasures and profits of sin...Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. called to have a free will again so free to indulge...or love.

Regeneration also legitimizes our relationship with HIM as a true child, not an illegitimate one, in which case the discipline of Heb 12:5-11 kicks in. No one is disciplined for righteous behaviours so it is obvious that these children of GOD are doing sinful things and being punished as training to be righteous ! the process of sanctification.