ACTS 19 JOHN'S BAPTISM

[DougE]

19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

John spoke below in regard to his baptism;

1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mark 1:8

The disciples of John were limited in their knowledge. They only knew the baptism of John and had only been baptized with John's baptism.

John baptized Israel to prepare them for the Kingdom. He baptized them to be cleansed to enter the Kingdom and to be prepared for national priesthood.

John baptized in order to identify Jesus as their Messiah.

Paul preached Jesus unto these disciples of John. He preached that John's baptism was to produce repentance to Israel to believe on Jesus.

The disciples believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus as commanded under Israel's Kingdom program.

Below Jesus was speaking of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Ghost was not given until after his resurrection. The disciples of John would not have expected to receive the Holy Spirit upon belief;

7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

Paul laid hands on the disciples and they received the Spirit.

The disciples of John also, according to prophecy below, spoke in tongues; Jesus said those that believed and were bapztized would be saved to enter into the Kingdom of God on earth.

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:16-17

Paul went to the Synagogue and preached the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom includes both heaven and earth. Believing Israel will inherit the earthly Kingdom. The Body of Christ will inherit the heavenly Kingdom.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings DougE,

Paul went to the Synagogue and preached the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom includes both heaven and earth. Believing Israel will inherit the earthly Kingdom. The Body of Christ will inherit the heavenly Kingdom.

Before I ask my questions, I would like to briefly state that I believe in only One Gospel, and believers from all ages, including Jews and Gentiles, will have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years. Jesus will return and raise some of the dead, where they are now sleeping in the dust of the earth, and he will reward the faithful Daniel 12:2-3. Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David as King / Priest in Jerusalem. The faithful from previous ages will rule with him as kings and priests and Israel and the nations will be the mortal subjects of this one Kingdom Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8 and Zechariah 14.

My questions are based upon your concept that there are two destinies, an earthly kingdom and a heavenly kingdom:
1. Luke 1:32-33 states that Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David and rule over the House of Jacob. Will Jesus be upon the earth during the 1000 years?
2. Will “the body of Christ” be in heaven during the 1000 years?
3. In other words, will Paul be in heaven with God the Father, while Jesus and the 12 Apostles be upon the earth?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings DougE,Before I ask my questions, I would like to briefly state that I believe in only One Gospel, and believers from all ages, including Jews and Gentiles, will have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years.

Yes, there will be Jews and gentiles in the kingdom on the earth. But in the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek; NEITHER male NOR female (clearly not earthly).

Jesus will return and raise some of the dead, where they are now sleeping in the dust of the earth, and he will reward the faithful Daniel 12:2-3. Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David as King / Priest in Jerusalem. The faithful from previous ages will rule with him as kings and priests and Israel and the nations will be the mortal subjects of this one Kingdom Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8 and Zechariah 14.

You're pretty close. Israel will be the kingdom of priests to the gentiles.

My questions are based upon your concept that there are two destinies, an earthly kingdom and a heavenly kingdom:
1. Luke 1:32-33 states that Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David and rule over the House of Jacob. Will Jesus be upon the earth during the 1000 years?

Yes, the throne of David is on the earth.

2. Will “the body of Christ” be in heaven during the 1000 years?

Yes.

3. In other words, will Paul be in heaven with God the Father, while Jesus and the 12 Apostles be upon the earth?

You're creating a false dichotomy.

Jesus is BOTH God and man. Paul and the rest of the body of Christ will be with Christ always.

 

[DougE]

Yes....Christ will rule as King for 1000 years ( Revelation 20:6 )....David will be prince....the Gentile nations will worship God thru Israel ( Isaiah 49:6 ), Israel will be a nation of priests ( Isaiah 61:6 ).....then new heavens and earth

The Body of Christ, and Paul, has all spiritual blessings...will reign in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3 )....the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth ( Matthew 19:28 )

 

[DougE]

Greetings DougE,Before I ask my questions, I would like to briefly state that I believe in only One Gospel, and believers from all ages, including Jews and Gentiles, will have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years. Jesus will return and raise some of the dead, where they are now sleeping in the dust of the earth, and he will reward the faithful Daniel 12:2-3. Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David as King / Priest in Jerusalem. The faithful from previous ages will rule with him as kings and priests and Israel and the nations will be the mortal subjects of this one Kingdom Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8 and Zechariah 14.

My questions are based upon your concept that there are two destinies, an earthly kingdom and a heavenly kingdom:
1. Luke 1:32-33 states that Jesus will sit upon the Throne of David and rule over the House of Jacob. Will Jesus be upon the earth during the 1000 years?
2. Will “the body of Christ” be in heaven during the 1000 years?
3. In other words, will Paul be in heaven with God the Father, while Jesus and the 12 Apostles be upon the earth?

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes....Christ will rule as King for 1000 years ( Revelation 20:6 )....David will be prince....the Gentile nations will worship God thru Israel ( Isaiah 49:6 ), Israel will be a nation of priests ( Isaiah 61:6 ).....then new heavens and earth

The Body of Christ, and Paul, has all spiritual blessings...will reign in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3 )....the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth ( Matthew 19:28 )

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider and DougE,

Yes, there will be Jews and gentiles in the kingdom on the earth. But in the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek; NEITHER male NOR female (clearly not earthly).

Those that are raised from the dead and given immortality in the Kingdom of God upon the earth will not be earthly
1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (KJV): 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

You're pretty close. Israel will be the kingdom of priests to the gentiles.

Some of mortal Israel will be priests, but the faithful from past ages who are made immortal will be Kings and Priests to both Israel and the nations.
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Yes, the throne of David is on the earth.

Then Jesus will be upon the earth as he is to sit upon the throne of David.

You're creating a false dichotomy. Jesus is BOTH God and man. Paul and the rest of the body of Christ will be with Christ always.

No, you are creating a false dichotomy, as Jesus is the Son of God Luke 1:35, Romans 1:1-4, Psalm 10:1 and the body of Christ will be with him upon the earth.

Yes....Christ will rule as King for 1000 years ( Revelation 20:6 )....David will be prince....the Gentile nations will worship God thru Israel ( Isaiah 49:6 ), Israel will be a nation of priests ( Isaiah 61:6 ).....then new heavens and earth
The Body of Christ, and Paul, has all spiritual blessings...will reign in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3 )....the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth ( Matthew 19:28 )

I have answered most of this above, except directly answering some of your quotes.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Some of mortal Israel will be priests, but the faithful from past ages who are made immortal will be Kings and Priests to both Israel and the nations.
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The book of Revelation is all about Israel and God's dealings with THEM.

 

[Tambora]

The book of Revelation is all about Israel and God's dealings with THEM.

Yeppers.
The "new song" was prophesied for Israel to sing.
Isiah 42

 

[Tambora]

Not to mention that the 144.000 are of the tribes of Israel.

Revelation 7 KJV
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
(6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
(7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
(8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.​

​

And no one can learn that "new song" except the 144,000.

Revelation 14 KJV
(3) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.​

​

 

[glorydaz]

Yes....Christ will rule as King for 1000 years ( Revelation 20:6 )....David will be prince....the Gentile nations will worship God thru Israel ( Isaiah 49:6 ), Israel will be a nation of priests ( Isaiah 61:6 ).....then new heavens and earth

The Body of Christ, and Paul, has all spiritual blessings...will reign in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3 )....the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth ( Matthew 19:28 )

Why will David be "prince"?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

The book of Revelation is all about Israel and God's dealings with THEM.

The Book of Revelation is addressed to all of God’s servants, not a portion of them that you describe as Israel in distinction to your concept of “Christ’s body”.
Revelation 1:1 (KJV): The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation chapters 2 and 3 show that Jesus addressed the Seven Congregations of Asia Minor, starting with Ephesus, and these Congregations were established as a result of Paul’s preaching on his Third Preaching Tour. Yes all of these are part of the true Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Tambora]

part of the true Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ.

There is no "spiritual Israel" and scripture never refers to us (of Paul's unique gospel) as "spiritual Israel".

There are those that are of Paul's ministry and there is Israel.
They are separate.

Romans 11 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

[steko]

Why will David be "prince"?

He is most likely referring to this:

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

 

[steko]

Yeppers.
The "new song" was prophesied for Israel to sing.
Isiah 42

So was 'the song of Moses'.
I seriously doubt that there are Christians anywhere that sing the song of Moses, unless there are some Messianics that do.

Rev_15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Tambora,

There is no "spiritual Israel" and scripture never refers to us (of Paul's unique gospel) as "spiritual Israel". There are those that are of Paul's ministry and there is Israel. They are separate.

I was thinking of the following which distinguishes between those that were members of the nation of Israel or were Jews living elsewhere at the time when Paul wrote. They were not followers of Jesus:
Romans 2:28–29 (KJV): 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 11 KJV (28) As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

This seems to be confused, as Paul is talking of the failure of the Jews and the Jewish nation to accept Jesus as the Christ, and they then opposed any Jew or Gentile that accepted the Gospel that the 12 Apostles and Paul and others preached. Paul is speaking about the future when Christ returns, when he will convert the remnant of the nation of Israel:
Romans 11:22–26 (KJV): 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider, The Book of Revelation is addressed to all of God’s servants, not a portion of them that you describe as Israel in distinction to your concept of “Christ’s body”.

The "servants" that Revelation is speaking of is Israel.

Revelation 1:1 (KJV): The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

John was ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE throne judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

Revelation chapters 2 and 3 show that Jesus addressed the Seven Congregations of Asia Minor, starting with Ephesus, and these Congregations were established as a result of Paul’s preaching on his Third Preaching Tour. Yes all of these are part of the true Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ.

Made up nonsense.

The ENTIRE book of Revelation is just drenched with Israelite references. That you cannot see that is a testament to your believing wrongly about most of the Bible.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider and Steko and Tambora (who surprisingly endorsed all of his post),

The "servants" that Revelation is speaking of is Israel.

No, the servants are all the faithful from the time when the Book of Revelation was given until the return of Jesus and beyond. The word “Revelation” speaks of the Apocalypse or revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one aspect of this is His Second Coming.

John was ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE throne judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

Yes, but this does not support your artificial demarcation between “Israel” and “the body of Christ”. John was a disciple of Jesus, even an Apostle, and he is also part of the bride of Christ, the body of Christ.

Made up nonsense.

Of course you have to use such a denial, as you cannot answer the obvious, that the 7 Congregations were formed when Paul went on his 3rd Preaching Tour. The 7 Seals were also very much relevant to these existing 7 Congregations, based upon the Continuous Historical view, but I suppose you deny this view.

The ENTIRE book of Revelation is just drenched with Israelite references. That you cannot see that is a testament to your believing wrongly about most of the Bible.

Yes much of the Book of Revelation is based upon an Israelite perspective, and many other aspects, continuing on from the OT prophets, such as the beasts of Daniel 7. But this does not in any way support your artificial subdivision. One question: Do you believe that you are part of the subdivision “the body of Christ” and not “Israel”, then from your perspective you are not one of the “servants” of Revelation 1:1, and as such this Book is not addressed to you, and you do not need to heed its message? If this is the case, I suggest that you are missing out on the final message of our Lord, and the blessing that Jesus proclaims.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider and Steko and Tambora (who surprisingly endorsed all of his post), No, the servants are all the faithful from the time when the Book of Revelation was given until the return of Jesus and beyond. The word “Revelation” speaks of the Apocalypse or revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one aspect of this is His Second Coming.

No, the servants in that reference are the faithful of Israel.

Yes, but this does not support your artificial demarcation between “Israel” and “the body of Christ”.

Nothing artificial about it.

John was a disciple of Jesus, even an Apostle, and he is also part of the bride of Christ, the body of Christ.

Why do you continue to ignore the FACT that John is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL?

Of course you have to use such a denial, as you cannot answer the obvious, that the 7 Congregations were formed when Paul went on his 3rd Preaching Tour. The 7 Seals were also very much relevant to these existing 7 Congregations, based upon the Continuous Historical view, but I suppose you deny this view.

You're just making things up.

Yes much of the Book of Revelation is based upon an Israelite perspective, and many other aspects, continuing on from the OT prophets, such as the beasts of Daniel 7. But this does not in any way support your artificial subdivision.

Once AGAIN, there is nothing artificial about it.

One question: Do you believe that you are part of the subdivision “the body of Christ” and not “Israel”, then from your perspective you are not one of the “servants” of Revelation 1:1, and as such this Book is not addressed to you, and you do not need to heed its message?

You are typical of those that apparently think that rightly dividing the Word of Truth requires tossing out portions of the Bible. It does NOT. But we also understand all parts of scripture IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT.

If this is the case, I suggest that you are missing out on the final message of our Lord, and the blessing that Jesus proclaims.

It's not and I suggest that you are trying to force the scripture to agree with your made up story instead of accepting what it actually says.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

You're just making things up.

QED

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider,QED

Kind regards
Trevor

I'm glad that you were willing to admit that you're just making things up. :thumb: