Absolute Truth: Philosophy, Jesus, and Absolute vs. Relative.

[Jacob]

Absolute truth is a philosophical idea. Jesus is better. But lets talk about truth.

There is absolute truth and relative truth. There is objective truth and subjective truth.

Jesus said,

John 14:6 NASB - 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 8:32 NASB - 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."​

So truth is of utmost importance and is discussed in the Bible, along with the word of truth and the God of truth.

Absolute truth is emphatic. There is no getting around this truth. It is truth always. It is truth absolutely.

Relative truth is not true all of the time, and is likened unto a lie that has some truth but is not 100 percent true.

So to say that absolute truth is relative would be wrong, except or unless someone who says or uses it as an idea uses it in a way that is relative. Even if a person themself is emphatic, he may be wrong, and then his idea of that truth being true absolutely is not correct.

I found myself addressing this situation recently and I was soon called a false teacher. But I do believe that abortion is murder so I hope this gets settled or sorted out. We can discuss here as many people as want to, even not about the specific real life example or situation that I have found myself in here.

 

[Guyver]

Great topic. First point, you said absolute truth is a philosophical idea. Do you mean to say it’s not real, or do you acknowledge philosophy as a form of truth?

 

[Jacob]

Great topic. First point, you said absolute truth is a philosophical idea. Do you mean to say it’s not real, or do you acknowledge philosophy as a form of truth?

Thanks.

Some people believe that even as a Christian you can engage others with or in philosophy. In philosophy or Apologetics we answer questions. But no, it is not like reading or quoting Scripture, God's Word. It can be regular or normal speech.

Colossians 2:8 NASB 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.​

 

[Guyver]

Thanks.

Some people believe that even as a Christian you can engage others with or in philosophy. In philosophy or Apologetics we answer questions. But no, it is not like reading or quoting Scripture, God's Word. It can be regular or normal speech.

Colossians 2:8 NASB 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.​

Yes. That is right. There’s one problem. From a Christian perspective means from a biased position. So, from that standpoint it’s almost insulting to discuss philosophy with a Christian.

 

[meshak]

Yes. That is right. There’s one problem. From a Christian perspective means from a biased position. So, from that standpoint it’s almost insulting to discuss philosophy with a Christian.

There is no unbiased "absolute Truth" because everyone is biased.

Only God knows what is absolute Truth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

There is no unbiased "absolute Truth" because everyone is biased.

Only God knows what is absolute Truth.

First of all, you just contradicted yourself.

"Absolute truth" is inherently unbiased. If God knows absolute truth, then your claim of "there is no unbiased absolute truth" is false.

Second: Is your statement that "there is no . . . absolute truth" absolutely true?

If not, then your argument falls apart, because you can't 100% know your argument is correct.

If so, then your argument is immediately disproved, because we could, in fact, know absolute truth.

 

[Guyver]

There is no unbiased "absolute Truth" because everyone is biased.

Only God knows what is absolute Truth.

You are right. But since Gods not telling, we must rely upon the skills he gave us if we would like to understand the truth.

 

[Jacob]

Yes. That is right. There’s one problem. From a Christian perspective means from a biased position. So, from that standpoint it’s almost insulting to discuss philosophy with a Christian.

I am not sure what you are saying. However, I have no argument.

 

[Jacob]

First of all, you just contradicted yourself.

"Absolute truth" is inherently unbiased. If God knows absolute truth, then your claim of "there is no unbiased absolute truth" is false.

Second: Is your statement that "there is no . . . absolute truth" absolutely true?

If not, then your argument falls apart, because you can't 100% know your argument is correct.

If so, then your argument is immediately disproved, because we could, in fact, know absolute truth.

Thank you. If you have absolute truth that does not mean you are biased.

 

[Jacob]

You are right. But since Gods not telling, we must rely upon the skills he gave us if we would like to understand the truth.

Amen.

 

[Guyver]

I know I need a haircut. That is absolutely true, but it’s not ansolute truth. It’s relative truth. It’s true to me. So, let’s see.....does that make it any less true?

Nope.

Just saying. So, truth is as we perceive it from a subjective or relative position.

 

[Guyver]

Now here’s the thing about truth. It’s slippery, like the perfect golf game, it’s always just out of reach.

Why not begin at the beginning? The truth is we exist. We live here, we die here....that’s as close to absolute truth as any of us are going to get......for the most part. I do believe in enlightenment so, those people I place one level higher than everyone else.

Anyway....the closer you look at something the more different it becomes. Let’s take the physical world. Look at a wall, one of the white plaster type. It appears smooth, beautiful, stable. Now increase magnification on a spot of that wall one thousand times and what happens?

It’s no longer smooth and beautiful, it’s sharp and craggy....it looks like an alien world. Now go deeper.....keep looking as magnification increase all the way down to individual atoms.

BTW...did you know that you can actually see atoms now? You should try google....you’d be amazed what you can find.

Anyway...go deeper than atoms....look at the components that comprise atoms and their spatial relationship. What happens? Now things are not dense and closely connected like atoms and elements.....there’s almost nothing but space. Just like the universe.

Lesson one.

 

[Guyver]

Lesson Two.

Things are known by their natures. The reason? That’s what they actually are. Obviously, elements combined..so as one poster here so graciously informed me...the gold wedding band on your finger could be a mixture of metals. Since gold is soft, other elements are included to strengthen it. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the pure nature of a thing.

So, material elements are know by their atomic number. That is their nature...it’s what they are.

Now, what do you think love is? Do you think love pure, or is it able to be diluted by being mixed with other elements?

 

[Jacob]

I know I need a haircut. That is absolutely true, but it’s not ansolute truth. It’s relative truth. It’s true to me. So, let’s see.....does that make it any less true?

Nope.

Just saying. So, truth is as we perceive it from a subjective or relative position.

for a haircut maybe

 

[Jacob]

Lesson Two.

Things are known by their natures. The reason? That’s what they actually are. Obviously, elements combined..so as one poster here so graciously informed me...the gold wedding band on your finger could be a mixture of metals. Since gold is soft, other elements are included to strengthen it. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the pure nature of a thing.

So, material elements are know by their atomic number. That is their nature...it’s what they are.

Now, what do you think love is? Do you think love pure, or is it able to be diluted by being mixed with other elements?

I know that love is not a metal.

 

[Guyver]

I know that love is not a metal.

What do you think love is Jacob?

 

[Jacob]

What do you think love is Jacob?

Caring for someone else.

 

[Guyver]

Caring for someone else.

Excellent response. I have no argument against it and I agree with you. Love is caring for someone else, even one’s own enemies....according to Jesus.

I thought you might quote some bible passages which speak of love. The Bible claims that God is love in 1 John 4, and in 1 Cor 13, the Bible describes what love is. Since you didn’t mention any of that, we can go with your statement. Love is caring for someone else.

Jesus agreed with you, and me, by offering the parable of the Good Samaritan. He was a religious outcast who did not know God according to the religious people of his day....yet he was the only one who pleased God by his love, and he is the only one God praised. The others, God criticized indirectly for their lack of understanding.

So, we don’t need the Bible to understand what love is. Love is caring for others, it is compassionate action....that is its nature. Having established this point, I would like to offer another point.

We can understand what love is not. Love is not the opposite of caring compassion. Anger, hate, vengeance, terror, torture, murder, and on and on...these things are not love, they are loves opposite. Would you agree with that?

 

[Jacob]

Excellent response. I have no argument against it and I agree with you. Love is caring for someone else, even one’s own enemies....according to Jesus.

I thought you might quote some bible passages which speak of love. The Bible claims that God is love in 1 John 4, and in 1 Cor 13, the Bible describes what love is. Since you didn’t mention any of that, we can go with your statement. Love is caring for someone else.

Jesus agreed with you, and me, by offering the parable of the Good Samaritan. He was a religious outcast who did not know God according to the religious people of his day....yet he was the only one who pleased God by his love, and he is the only one God praised. The others, God criticized indirectly for their lack of understanding.

So, we don’t need the Bible to understand what love is. Love is caring for others, it is compassionate action....that is its nature. Having established this point, I would like to offer another point.

We can understand what love is not. Love is not the opposite of caring compassion. Anger, hate, vengeance, terror, torture, murder, and on and on...these things are not love, they are loves opposite. Would you agree with that?

Yes. Except that except for the last three, terror, torture, murder, the others may have their place. Anger can be godly, but usually isn't. It is okay to hate sin, but not to be hateful. The Bible says vengeance is Mine saith the LORD. Does this mean that He can have vengeance but no one else can?

 

[Guyver]

Yes. Except that except for the last three, terror, torture, murder, the others may have their place. Anger can be godly, but usually isn't. It is okay to hate sin, but not to be hateful. The Bible says vengeance is Mine saith the LORD. Does this mean that He can have vengeance but no one else can?

That seems a straight forward yes answer. If it is Gods, then it doesn’t belong to someone else.

It just comes down to a really simple question. Is it true? Is it true that God is angry, hateful, vengeful and possessing bad intentions as the Bible states in Psalms that God is angry with the wicked everyday?

If you base your beliefs about Gods nature on the Bible alone, considering the only trustworthy source on the matter... then you would be forced to conclude that God is like a man. He can become angry and lose his temper.....he can wish to kill people and animals, and keep the wicked alive forever in a burning place of fiery torment. That’s what you get by believing what the Bible says about it.

The biggest problem with this kind of thinking is that is directly contradicted by both the gospels and epistles which claim these things are not the nature of love, but are works of the flesh. But since the Bible says different things about the same things in different places, and these things so frequently conflict, one has to attempt to believe both and find a way to reconcile this conflict in their mind. Or just ignore the problem altogether.

The epistles claim that not only is God love by nature, but he is called the God of Love and Peace.

Love and peace is in direct conflict with anger, hatred, violence and retribution.