Paul Thomson
New member
I have heard determinists argue that this text confutes open theism because it denies God has knowledge of some details of the psst. Of course, such a reading also contradicts the determinist position, because they also claim God has exhaustive knowledge of the past. The open theist I heard dealing with this text suggested that God does not necessarily remember, when He takes on a human form, what he previously knew happened in the past. That response seemed somewhat awkward to me.
My approach to any difficult text is to analyse that Hebrew text and look for a possible translation that sounds natural and may also be consistent with open theism.
Gen. 18:19 And Yahweh said, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah and because their sin is very grievous
20 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me, and if not, I will know.
What alternative reading does the Hebrew allow? Here is my translation.
Gen. 18:19 And Yahweh said, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah has become great (RaBBaH) Qal perfective/complete) , and because their sin has become very grievous (KaBDaR : Qal perfective/complete) [We see here that God does know that their sin has become very bad.]
20 Let Me go down ("eRaDaH ; Qal Cohortative) now, and let Me see (V-'eReH :Qal cohortative) whether they do ('aShU : Qal perfective/complete) altogether/completely according to the cry of it ( Ha-KK-Tsa'aQaTa-Ha). which is come (Ha-Ba'aH ; Qal Perfective) unto me, and if not, I will know ('eDa"aH : Qal imperfective/incomplete)
Biblical Hebrew has no tenses, but verbs forms indicate either complete or incomplete actions and states, with context supplying tense where necessary. So the Hebrew word commonly translated here as a past perfect (they have done) through a completed action, is not necessarily an action that was completed in the past. It can be a completed action in the present or the future. The text is speaking about the future, so God means "whether they will have done altogether according to the cry of it." We would express this in English as "whether they do altogether according to the cry of it. which has come unto Me."
Then God says, "And if not, I will know." This is a knowing by experience. That is, "if they do not do (to Me in my human form) according to what I have heard they do to all strangers who wander into their town, I will know by my present experience that things there are not quite as bad today as I have heard and seen recently. And i may give them a little more time to turn from their wicked trajectory.
So, there is no need to explain some failure or uncertainty in God re exhaustive past knowledge about Sodom and Gomorrah in this text, and it fits perfectly fine with the open theist view.
Does anyone see an error in my reasoning here?
So God is
My approach to any difficult text is to analyse that Hebrew text and look for a possible translation that sounds natural and may also be consistent with open theism.
Gen. 18:19 And Yahweh said, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah and because their sin is very grievous
20 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me, and if not, I will know.
What alternative reading does the Hebrew allow? Here is my translation.
Gen. 18:19 And Yahweh said, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah has become great (RaBBaH) Qal perfective/complete) , and because their sin has become very grievous (KaBDaR : Qal perfective/complete) [We see here that God does know that their sin has become very bad.]
20 Let Me go down ("eRaDaH ; Qal Cohortative) now, and let Me see (V-'eReH :Qal cohortative) whether they do ('aShU : Qal perfective/complete) altogether/completely according to the cry of it ( Ha-KK-Tsa'aQaTa-Ha). which is come (Ha-Ba'aH ; Qal Perfective) unto me, and if not, I will know ('eDa"aH : Qal imperfective/incomplete)
Biblical Hebrew has no tenses, but verbs forms indicate either complete or incomplete actions and states, with context supplying tense where necessary. So the Hebrew word commonly translated here as a past perfect (they have done) through a completed action, is not necessarily an action that was completed in the past. It can be a completed action in the present or the future. The text is speaking about the future, so God means "whether they will have done altogether according to the cry of it." We would express this in English as "whether they do altogether according to the cry of it. which has come unto Me."
Then God says, "And if not, I will know." This is a knowing by experience. That is, "if they do not do (to Me in my human form) according to what I have heard they do to all strangers who wander into their town, I will know by my present experience that things there are not quite as bad today as I have heard and seen recently. And i may give them a little more time to turn from their wicked trajectory.
So, there is no need to explain some failure or uncertainty in God re exhaustive past knowledge about Sodom and Gomorrah in this text, and it fits perfectly fine with the open theist view.
Does anyone see an error in my reasoning here?
So God is
