İ'm a 18 year old know-it-all Muslim. Ask me anything!

Repentance

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This is a step back from Christianity.

John 15:14-16 You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.​



Prophets themselves are mediators between God and the people - or did God come and give you the Quran personally?

Gal 3:19-20 Why the Law then? It was added [ac]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not [ae]for one party only; whereas God is only one.​

Also - Christians are told to pray to God directly for forgiveness. When asked how to pray, Jesus gave us this prayer:

Matthew 6:9-13 This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.


We are the friends of prophets but the slaves of God for we know not what our Master is doing. We are the friends of Jesus but the slaves of God. We are prohibited from calling ourselves slaves of any other being other than God. Do you know everything about the Father or about the Son?

Yes but the Quran is the uncreated speech of God. Having a connection with the Quran is like having a connection with God. The Prophets set up the telephone lines and we now have the direct link if you know what I mean. And we need no third party except for guidance.

In Islam idols are of two types. The external idols are fake rivals of God. The internal idols are those that manifest itself as avators or mediators (see how I use this, we have different definitions) through whom we pretend to draw closer to God the more we worship God through them. Islam came to destroy these idols once and for all. Its only you and God and no lamb could be a random for you. The mercy and grace of God is direct.
 

Repentance

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Just because we are slaves and Allah is Master and Lord doesn't mean it stops there. We have several levels in closeness to God. But we acknowledge that whatever said than done that all praise and gratitude goes to Allah and not the other way around. The first conversation we had with God was when God asked us:

"Am I not your Rabb?"

God is not just God but He is also Lord and Master.

We are encouraged to go one to one with God but at the same time we shouldn't forget that we are a community of believers.

Muslims say this praise at least 17 times a day. All praise and Gratitude be to God - the Lord and Master of all creation. Its not an equal two way relationship. Worship, Love, Fear, Hope, Praise and Gratitude goes to God or should be experienced and God gives us Peace, Love, Sakinah and Guidance.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
We are the friends of prophets but the slaves of God for we know not what our Master is doing. We are the friends of Jesus but the slaves of God. We are prohibited from calling ourselves slaves of any other being other than God. Do you know everything about the Father or about the Son?

Of course we don't know everything - but then one doesn't need to know everything about another to be their friend. A slave merely knows what he has been told to do - but no one bothers to explain to him why it must be done. It is irrelevant for a mere slave.

We, however, are friends of God because God has provided us with a detailed understanding of his will and why are called to do what he sent us to do.

Yes but the Quran is the uncreated speech of God. Having a connection with the Quran is like having a connection with God. The Prophets set up the telephone lines and we now have the direct link if you know what I mean. And we need no third party except for guidance.

Those telephone lines, the handset that you hold to your head - those are mediators. Even if you trust the connection - this fact doesn't change. Or do you think you are the only one to claim that his/her sacred text is without error - the direct unadulterated Word of God? There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians on this forum who maintain the same thing.

In Islam idols are of two types. The external idols are fake rivals of God. The internal idols are those that manifest itself as avators or mediators (see how I use this, we have different definitions) through whom we pretend to draw closer to God the more we worship God through them. Islam came to destroy these idols once and for all.

Redefining things so that it fits with your theology in contradiction to the everyday usage is misleading and potentially dishonest.

At any rate, Jesus isn't an idol setup in opposition to God - he is his Son and Prophet, sent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and establish the New Covenant. Jesus leads us to God, and teaches us his ways.

Its only you and God and no lamb could be a random for you. The mercy and grace of God is direct.

God is just - and the just reward for a life of sin is death. If we are left to pay our debts we are doomed. In fact, this is why mediation is necessary in the first place - because for a sinner to be in God's presence means death, for God is holy. That is why God originally walked with Adam and Eve in the garden, directly interacting with them - but then subsequently communicated with men through mediators like the angels and prophets. For despite our sin God loves us, and wants us to have the opportunity to be tested, to repent of our sins and return to him.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

That God allows for a sacrifice in place of one's own life is itself an act of mercy; that he allows us to be redeemed and reconciled to him despite all our wrong-doing is an act of love.
 
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journey

New member
Repentance,

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you deserve the truth.

If you came here to convert real Christians to Islam, you can forget about that because we know the True and Living God. Everything about Islam is FALSE, including its false prophet and so-called holy book. Part of Islam's holy book was simply taken from the Holy Bible, and the rest was made up.

We all know that Islam is not a religion of peace, rather of violence and hatred. We all know about the commands to kill those who refuse your false religion. As a prime example, how many innocent people have been massacred just recently - simply because they were Christians or some religion other than Islam? So, we all know that it's impossible to call Islam a religion of peace. Do you wish to kill me for telling you the truth?
 

csuguy

Well-known member
Repentance,

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you deserve the truth.

If you came here to convert real Christians to Islam, you can forget about that because we know the True and Living God. Everything about Islam is FALSE, including its false prophet and so-called holy book. Part of Islam's holy book was simply taken from the Holy Bible, and the rest was made up.

We all know that Islam is not a religion of peace, rather of violence and hatred. We all know about the commands to kill those who refuse your false religion. As a prime example, how many innocent people have been massacred just recently - simply because they were Christians or some religion other than Islam? So, we all know that it's impossible to call Islam a religion of peace. Do you wish to kill me for telling you the truth?

Repentance - please don't think that all Christians view Islam like this. While I do hold that Christianity is the true religion (obviously - else I wouldn't be Christian) - I do not view Islam as a hateful, evil religion. There are extremists in Islam - but that doesn't mean all Muslims are extremists. To the contrary, Islam has many good qualities that are in common with Christianity (though we need to correct your understanding of what the scriptures teach of Jesus).

I have a Muslim friend who is one of the coolest people I know. Ignore the haters on this site so that the rest of us can engage in meaningful discussions.
 

journey

New member
Repentance - please don't think that all Christians view Islam like this. While I do hold that Christianity is the true religion (obviously - else I wouldn't be Christian) - I do not view Islam as a hateful, evil religion. There are extremists in Islam - but that doesn't mean all Muslims are extremists. To the contrary, Islam has many good qualities that are in common with Christianity (though we need to correct your understanding of what the scriptures teach of Jesus).

I have a Muslim friend who is one of the coolest people I know. Ignore the haters on this site so that the rest of us can engage in meaningful discussions.

I didn't even give a hint that I'm a hater. I simply told the truth, and you know it. Read the Qur'an for the facts that will back up everything I said about Islam being a violent and hateful religion. It may be true that some members of Islam refuse to obey the commands of the Qur'an, but that doesn't change the fact that the commands are there. By the way, I don't hate anyone.
 

Repentance

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I didn't even give a hint that I'm a hater. I simply told the truth, and you know it. Read the Qur'an for the facts that will back up everything I said about Islam being a violent and hateful religion. It may be true that some members of Islam refuse to obey the commands of the Qur'an, but that doesn't change the fact that the commands are there. By the way, I don't hate anyone.

The Koran is the only non-Christain Scripture in the universe that speaks highly of some Christians.

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Repentance,

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you deserve the truth.

If you came here to convert real Christians to Islam, you can forget about that because we know the True and Living God. Everything about Islam is FALSE, including its false prophet and so-called holy book. Part of Islam's holy book was simply taken from the Holy Bible, and the rest was made up.

We all know that Islam is not a religion of peace, rather of violence and hatred. We all know about the commands to kill those who refuse your false religion. As a prime example, how many innocent people have been massacred just recently - simply because they were Christians or some religion other than Islam? So, we all know that it's impossible to call Islam a religion of peace. Do you wish to kill me for telling you the truth?

:up:
 

Repentance

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Of course we don't know everything - but then one doesn't need to know everything about another to be their friend. A slave merely knows what he has been told to do - but no one bothers to explain to him why it must be done. It is irrelevant for a mere slave.

We, however, are friends of God because God has provided us with a detailed understanding of his will and why are called to do what he sent us to do.



Those telephone lines, the handset that you hold to your head - those are mediators. Even if you trust the connection - this fact doesn't change. Or do you think you are the only one to claim that his/her sacred text is without error - the direct unadulterated Word of God? There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians on this forum who maintain the same thing.



Redefining things so that it fits with your theology in contradiction to the everyday usage is misleading and potentially dishonest.

At any rate, Jesus isn't an idol setup in opposition to God - he is his Son and Prophet, sent to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and establish the New Covenant. Jesus leads us to God, and teaches us his ways.



God is just - and the just reward for a life of sin is death. If we are left to pay our debts we are doomed. In fact, this is why mediation is necessary in the first place - because for a sinner to be in God's presence means death, for God is holy. That is why God originally walked with Adam and Eve in the garden, directly interacting with them - but then subsequently communicated with men through mediators like the angels and prophets. For despite our sin God loves us, and wants us to have the opportunity to be tested, to repent of our sins and return to him.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

That God allows for a sacrifice in place of one's own life is itself an act of mercy; that he allows us to be redeemed and reconciled to him despite all our wrong-doing is an act of love.

But I said it doesn't end up there. We begin as slaves. Not all slaves are the friends of God but the friends of God are slaves. The Quran uses a lot of terminology to rank the believers. We have a complete dimension of Islam - Sufism - that concentrates on our relationship with God and how to improve it.

You need to look at the BIGGER picture. It is a semantics issue if a issue at all. The language of Islam is Arabic. Any criticism of the language should solely be reserved to the equivalent Arabic word and connotations. Then you also need to look at this brute Islamic fact. We are all slaves of something or someone. We originally were worshippers of God but with freewill we could chose our ilah or object of our service. We are all slaves of ONE God but then it starts from there. Its not the Nemesis.

Forget the language. Look at the life of an average Muslim and the life of an average Christian. Muslims are reminded that they are all slaves of ONE God when they have to do salaah 5 times a day. That's the foundation. It doesn't end there. We also have so many extra stuff like dua and zikr and even charity that we do to draw closer to God.

How do Christians draw closer to God? I've never seen in my entire life a Christian actually bowing or prostrating to God. They do stuff that uplifts their sense of satisfaction.

That the Christian God needs a ransom in the form of a sacrifice before He could forgive sins and accept repentance is the worst idea you could teach a Muslim. We believe that God is well capable of purifying us Himself if we ask for it in sincere repentance. That's all. We do NOT need a third person. Its Pauline philosophy that brutalises God as some sort of Idk.

God is Just and God is Most Merciful and Most Forgiving. He bows to no higher authority but sets the rules and the scale himself

Whatever said Jesus is an internal idol in Christianity. Those who consider him a part of the Godhead worthy of worship is committing a huge mistake. Worshipping Jesus ≠ Worshipping God who is the Father. Even if they don't worship Jesus they attribute divine properties to Him thus robbing God of His Uniqueness
 

csuguy

Well-known member
But I said it doesn't end up there. We begin as slaves. Not all slaves are the friends of God but the friends of God are slaves. The Quran uses a lot of terminology to rank the believers. We have a complete dimension of Islam - Sufism - that concentrates on our relationship with God and how to improve it.

As far as ranking goes in Christianity: the least shall be greatest in the kingdom of heaven. That is to say, the one who gives of themselves the most, who devotes themselves to doing God's will and spares nothing of themselves in helping those in need - they shall be the greatest in heaven. Of course, the greatest among us will be Christ - the firstfruits.

You need to look at the BIGGER picture. It is a semantics issue if a issue at all. The language of Islam is Arabic. Any criticism of the language should solely be reserved to the equivalent Arabic word and connotations. Then you also need to look at this brute Islamic fact. We are all slaves of something or someone. We originally were worshippers of God but with freewill we could chose our ilah or object of our service. We are all slaves of ONE God but then it starts from there. Its not the Nemesis.

Christianity also teaches that one can only have one master.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”​

Forget the language. Look at the life of an average Muslim and the life of an average Christian. Muslims are reminded that they are all slaves of ONE God when they have to do salaah 5 times a day. That's the foundation. It doesn't end there. We also have so many extra stuff like dua and zikr and even charity that we do to draw closer to God.

How do Christians draw closer to God? I've never seen in my entire life a Christian actually bowing or prostrating to God. They do stuff that uplifts their sense of satisfaction.

You've clearly never been to a church. Different people worship in different manners in Christianity, in accordance with sect and personal beliefs. Many will get on their knees and pray throughout a service, reciting verses - such as in Catholicism. Orthodoxy has lots of tradition in its services - but I couldn't give you a detailed description off hand since I've only been to a few of their services. People are expected to stand throughout their fairly long services though, unless one can't because they are old/young/etc.

Protestants emphasize the personal nature of our relationship with God and so tend to minimize the amount of prescribed ritual in worshiping God - but they come together, sing God's praises, listen to God's Word, and go out and help those in need.

For Christians, the study of God's Word and the doing of his will (helping those in need, spreading the Gospel, etc) are acts of worship, and they draw us closer to God.

John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

As far as prayer goes - Christianity treats prayer much differently from Islam. Prayer, for the Christian, is a private matter between God and the individual. Same with fasting and the like.

Matthew 6:2-8;16-18 So when you [a]give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your [c]giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 5 “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners [d]so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

....

16 Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they [j]neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face 18 so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.



That the Christian God needs a ransom in the form of a sacrifice before He could forgive sins and accept repentance is the worst idea you could teach a Muslim. We believe that God is well capable of purifying us Himself if we ask for it in sincere repentance. That's all. We do NOT need a third person. Its Pauline philosophy that brutalises God as some sort of Idk.

God is Just and God is Most Merciful and Most Forgiving. He bows to no higher authority but sets the rules and the scale himself

Whatever said Jesus is an internal idol in Christianity. Those who consider him a part of the Godhead worthy of worship is committing a huge mistake. Worshipping Jesus ≠ Worshipping God who is the Father. Even if they don't worship Jesus they attribute divine properties to Him thus robbing God of His Uniqueness

The Muslim understanding of God is not a just one then - if you think that God cares only of repentance and thinks nothing of the damage that one's sins cause. For instance - in Christianity one who has been forgiven is expected to likewise forgive. If one refuses to forgive, then they are not forgiven.

God freely forgives - but when one forgives, this does not undo the damage. The damage exists and must be dealt with.

As far as Jesus being an idol goes - this is completely ridiculous and demonstrates a lack of understanding of who the scriptures teach that he is. It is not idolizing him to honor him and follow his teachings - he does not lead us away from God, but to God.

Or do you think it idolatry to honor Muhammed and follow the teachings that he has passed on?

And Jesus doesn't rob God of his uniqueness - there is only one God, the Father.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
I didn't even give a hint that I'm a hater. I simply told the truth, and you know it. Read the Qur'an for the facts that will back up everything I said about Islam being a violent and hateful religion. It may be true that some members of Islam refuse to obey the commands of the Qur'an, but that doesn't change the fact that the commands are there. By the way, I don't hate anyone.

I am reading through the Quran, as well as some other works that go through and explain Islamic beliefs and practices. From what I have read so far - Islam is most certainly not a violent and hateful religion by nature, though some abuse it as such. Muhammad explicitly forbid forced conversion, for instance.

In war, captured people could convert to Islam and be spared, OR they could pay an alliance tax and be spared. Only if they did neither were they killed. This is fairly reasonable in war. Of course, depending upon how the tax was collected and the amount - this may have left the poor with the choice of converting or dying, not sure on this point as of yet. Perhaps Repentance can shed some light on the matter.

At any rate - you should be well aware of the fact that people abuse religion and do great evil in its name. Many Christians have likewise acted contrary to Christianity and done great evil. Rather than jumping to conclusions, you should try to understand what Islam teaches - even if you disagree with it.

More to the point - you shouldn't be trying to shutdown conversations between yourself and non-Christians. If their views are so terrible, then all the more reason for you to reason with them and attempt to win them over to the truth. Paul said to become all things to all people so that you might win some.
 

Repentance

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Christianity also teaches that one can only have one master.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”​

SO Christianity teaches that we should serve God and God is a master. A servant or slave is a person who serves. But still this doesn't prevent God from taking friends or for us to draw closer to God. It's the same type of thing in Islam but we do not have the father-children concept in name. This is to prevent the blasphemies connotations the Christians have of Father and Son, meaning that God shares His essence with another created being.

You've clearly never been to a church. Different people worship in different manners in Christianity, in accordance with sect and personal beliefs. Many will get on their knees and pray throughout a service, reciting verses - such as in Catholicism. Orthodoxy has lots of tradition in its services - but I couldn't give you a detailed description off hand since I've only been to a few of their services. People are expected to stand throughout their fairly long services though, unless one can't because they are old/young/etc.

Protestants emphasize the personal nature of our relationship with God and so tend to minimize the amount of prescribed ritual in worshiping God - but they come together, sing God's praises, listen to God's Word, and go out and help those in need.

But they don't have a Salaah kind of thing where they could worship God as a congregations with body and spirit? All Muslims do salaah which can be done in congregation. It's very symbolic of unity.

For Christians, the study of God's Word and the doing of his will (helping those in need, spreading the Gospel, etc) are acts of worship, and they draw us closer to God.

Just so in Islam too. Everything could be an act of worship if we do it in the name of God and only God.

As far as prayer goes - Christianity treats prayer much differently from Islam. Prayer, for the Christian, is a private matter between God and the individual. Same with fasting and the like.

This is a common misconception among Christians. Muslims have two kinds of "prayers". Ritual and non-ritual. The ritual is Salaah could be in congregation, or private or could be supererogatory. We also have Dua which is resembles the Christian form of prayer. Fasting and Sadaqah (any form of charity) can be supererogatory too in addition to the obligatory.

"My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I will love him.When I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, hishand with which he strikes, and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] ofMe, I would surely give it to him; and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant limit." Hadith Qudsi

“The likeness of those who spend for Allah’s sake is as the likeness of a grain of corn, it grows seven ears every single ear has a hundred grains, and Allah multiplies (increases the reward of) for whom He wills, and Allah is sufficient for His creatures’ needs, All-Knower).” (Qur’an, 2:261)

“Those who (in charity) spend of their goods by night and by day, in secret and in public have their reward with their Rabb (only God and Sustainer). On them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.” (Qur‘an, 2:274)

“…that which you give for charity, seeking the Countenance of Allah, (will increase); it is those who will get a recompense multiplied.” (Qur’an, 30:39)

“Only those who believe in Our Signs, who when they are recited to them fall down in adoration, and celebrate the praises of their Rabb (only God and Sustainer), nor are they (ever) puffed up with pride. They forsake their beds of sleep, the while they call on their Rabb (only God and Sustainer), in Fear and Hope. And they spend (in charity) out of the sustenance which We have bestowed on them. Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden (in reserve) for them -- as a reward for their (good) Deeds. Is then the man who believes no better than the man who is rebellious and wicked? Not equal are they. For those who believe and do righteous deeds are Gardens as hospitable Homes, for their (good) deeds.” (Qur‘an, 32:15-19)

“For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women for devout men and women for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah’s remembrance for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.” (Qur’an, 33:35)

O you who believe! Do not render vain your charity by reminders of your generosity or by injury, like him who spends his wealth to be seen of men and he does not believe in Allah nor in the last Day.” (Qur’an, 2: 264)

“And whatever you spend in charity or whatever vow you make, be sure Allah knows it all. But the wrongdoers have no helpers. If you disclose (acts of) charity, even so it is well, but if you conceal them and make them reach those (really) in need, that is best for you. It will remove from you some of your (stains of) evil. And Allah is well acquainted with what you do.” (Qur‘an, 2:270-271)

Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) said, “Seven people will be shaded by Allah under His shade on the day when there will be no shade except His. They are: 1. a just ruler, 2. a youth who grew up in the worship of Allah, 3. a man whose heart is attached to the mosque, 4. two men who love each other for Allah’s sake, meeting for that and parting for that. 5. a man who is called by a woman of beauty and position but he says, “I fear Allah”, 6. a man who gives in charity and hides it, such that his left hand does not know what his right hand gives in charity, and 7. a man who remembered Allah in private and so his eyes shed tears.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari (Eng. translation) vol. 2, hadeeth no. 504)

"The Hypocrites - they think they are over-reaching God, but He will over-reach them: When they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen of men, but little do they hold God in remembrance; (The Noble Quran, 4:142)"

"So woe to the worshipers Who are neglectful Of their Prayers, Those who (want but) To be seen (of men), But refuse (to supply) (Even) neighbourly needs. (The Noble Quran, 107:4-7)"

The Muslim understanding of God is not a just one then - if you think that God cares only of repentance and thinks nothing of the damage that one's sins cause. For instance - in Christianity one who has been forgiven is expected to likewise forgive. If one refuses to forgive, then they are not forgiven.

God freely forgives - but when one forgives, this does not undo the damage. The damage exists and must be dealt with.

If you wrong someone and He forgives you would you have to pay him back? What's forgiveness then?

When we wrong others we must pay back if they do not forgive you. Same with God. If God forgives what more is needed?

The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) asked his Companions (Sahaaba) "Do you know who is poor and empty handed?" The Companions said "We think that the one who has no property or money is poor." The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) remarked "Be sure the poor in my Ummah (followers) is he who comes with the wealth of Fasts, Namaaz (Prayers) and Zakaat (Charity) alongwith the misdeeds of having abused someone, blamed someone, snatched someone's property, slained someone unnecessarily. In consequence his virtues will be awarded to those whom he has hurt. If his virtues are finished, sins of the claimants will be awarded to the opressor and surely he will be sent to Hell. Such person is termed as poor.

Repentance itself is enough. The purpose of Justice is to balance the scales. But if the wronged chooses to forgive then there is no retribution. In Islamic Law a murderer could be forgiven without facing death.

Even if Jesus died to pay the wages of our sins why should we believe in such a sacrifice after repentance? Repentance itself is enough.

Or do you think it idolatry to honor Muhammed and follow the teachings that he has passed on?

And Jesus doesn't rob God of his uniqueness - there is only one God, the Father.

The Jesus of the Christians shares some divine attributes with God. Hence God is not unique.

Muhammad does not have any divine attribute. He does not rival God nor is he some sort of avatar or incarnation or shade of God. He showed us the way like the Prophets before him and that's all
 

IMJerusha

New member
1) It is the way of God to punish all those who don't worship him alone. Noah's flood genocided the entire earth. Sodom and Gomorroh was utterly destroyed. Etc.

First of all, it wasn't Noah's flood, it was God's. Secondly, God chose to destroy all of mankind except Noah and his family because mankind had become corrupt and very wicked in general, not solely because they didn't worship Him alone. Same situation as Sodom and Gomorrah.

2) Muslims don't worship a rock. They don't put in a square thing.

Really, that's why a pilgrimage to Mecca, the square building holding the rock is required and prayers made several times a day in the direction of the building. The building where the black stone is housed is thought to be a portal between heaven and earth and the black stone is thought to be a special link.

There isn't any pagan inscriptions there.

Not true. The building was originally dedicated to a false god called Hubal and was filled with many idols. Muhammad renovated this building for the use of his false religion.

It is not obligatory at all to touch the stone during hajj.

It's immaterial if it's obligatory. The rock is smooth from the many people rubbing and kissing it. It's called stone fetish and in Arabia there were many stones representing different gods. Muhammad incorporated this paganism into his religion.

We only revere it as a relic that's all.

A relic of the moon god allah and his daughters which rode the rock to earth.

We worship the God who is in Heaven.

You don't know the One True God of Israel nor do you acknowledge His Son, Yeshua.

3) No the Jews of the Torah and the Muslims of the Quran worship only ONE God. ONE indivisible God.

The Jews worship the One True God of Israel. Christians worship the One True God of Israel. Muslims worship a moon god.

4) Allah is a name of the ONE TRUE GOD.

No, allah is the name of a moon god (a false god) who supposedly had three daughters, al-lat, manat and al-uzza. These three women were considered goddesses of Mecca, that square building Muhammad renovated to serve his made up religion.

It was used by Christians before English was even invented.

No, it was not. The name for the One True God of Israel was not spoken and when Christians began to breathe His name it was Yahweh, YHWH, Adonai, Elohim and later HaShem.

Long before Muhammad and even now Arabic bibles use "Allah" for God.

It has only ever been an Arabic name for a moon god.
 

Repentance

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The Black Stone has nothing to do with the Kaabah and it needn't be placed near it. Do you know what's inside the Kaabah? Basically nothing! The Kaabah was originally multicoloured and different in structure. It needn't matter. We face it as a direction just like Muslims used to face Jerusalem before. You just don't get it.

Allah is the God of Abraham. The pagans hijacked Abraham's teachings and introduced pagan concepts of intercessors and daughters to Allah. Islam came to eradicate these false beliefs.

The crescent symbol has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the Ottomans.

IMJerusha you know nothing. I won't bother replying to you. May God of Israel guide you to the truth. May you realise the true teachings of Jesus
 

IMJerusha

New member
1) The polytheists believe that Allah had daughters.

Muslims are polytheists because they believe in the false moon god allah who supposedly had three goddess daughters.

The Prophet used many arguments to say otherwise.

Muhammad was no prophet of the One True God of Israel and he wrote down a lot of false things.

2) It is not because God doesn't have a wife.

I don't think Christians speculate on whether God has a wife or not. I have certainly never intimated that He does.

It is because He doesn't share the Godhead with anyone and it doesn't fit his Majesty.

You are correct. God does not share the Godhead with anyone.

God doesn't share His Essence.

Scripture states otherwise. "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35

"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17

3) The prophets did not prophecise Jesus dying in the cross to wipe out all sin. They prophesizrd that he'll conquer death. How? God woule save him. Even Satan knew that the angels were protecting every bone of Jesus.

You pay little attention to Isaiah 53.

4) God is not deceitful.

The One True God of Israel is not, yours...eh, not really important.

James the Just spoke the truth.

Absolutely!

It is St Paul the apostate who deceived and rebelled against the early church.

You are a bit confused as apostates aren't saints. Paul was delivered and forgiven by Yeshua and greatly used to spread God's message of the New Covenant through Yeshua. He was confirmed by Peter and Ananias and their witness should be good enough for any believer but since you are an infidel, it wouldn't be enough for you.

It was not meant to be a big thing

Messianic prophecy was indeed a very big thing. Yeshua's fulfillment of that prophecy even bigger.

or sacrifice.
"See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him—his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand." Isaiah 52:13-15

If you knew the One True God, you might not be so arrogant regarding His intentions.

God saved Jesus, that's the miracle.

Your false Jesus, perhaps. The true Messiah, Yeshua, did not require salvation because He was perfectly obedient to One True God.

God rose Jesus to heaven, that's the miracle.

That's just part of the miracle of the New Covenant in Yeshua.

Jesus would return, wait for him.

All of the Body of Yeshua, the Son of the One True God of Israel, wait for His return.

Wait for the spirit of truth.

We don't have to wait for the Ruach. He is already with us.

Death to St. Paul

And the true nature of Islamics comes pouring out.

and blessings to James the Just.

Indeed, however, James didn't have this enormous problem with Paul.
That's a load of hooey.

5) We believe that Jesus was born to Virgin Mary

No, Muslims do not believe that. Well, they state they do and then deny the power of the One True God to accomplish it, leaving Yeshua as some mysterious bastardly liar without His Heavenly Father ("For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.") and Mary's testimony a falsehood.

Bastardly is defined as:
adjective
1. of no value; worthless.
2. spurious; counterfeit:
3. baseborn.
 
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IMJerusha

New member
Why is Islam a mixture of pagan and Judaistic teachings? Are you so blind and deaf???

Because Muhammad created it that way and I'm not the least bit blind or deaf when it comes to the faith of Yeshua.

In the heart of every pagan faith there is the concept of one powerful God.

That's not true.

Islam came to attack

Yeah, we got that part figured out.

and wipe away all the innovations in these pagan faiths.

Creating a whole new pagan innovation!

We need no partner to God nor any intercessor or mediator.

That is exactly what Muhammad set himself up as.

There's only one Allah and you must have a direct relationship with Him with no need of a Son of God or idol or any other thing.

That is your god, not the One True God of Israel.

Islam is the true religion reborn.

No, it is the false religion created by Muhammad of a false god and false prophet.

I don't see how Christianity is.

Now there's some truth.

The purest form of monotheism is Islam.

There's monotheism and then there is the faith of Yeshua in the One True God of Israel.

The worship of ONE GOD is Islam.

Don't forget your god's mediator, Muhammad.

The gratitude and appreciation going to ONE GOD is Islam.

Think how much better it would be for Islam if gratitude and appreciation went to the One True God of Israel.

All glory be to ONE GOD with no partner or family or son. Who is the POSITIVE INFINITE and others all are ZERO.

Shout that a little louder, maybe your god will show you some gratitude and appreciation. I'm thinkin' not...
 

IMJerusha

New member
Repentance - please don't think that all Christians view Islam like this. While I do hold that Christianity is the true religion (obviously - else I wouldn't be Christian) - I do not view Islam as a hateful, evil religion. There are extremists in Islam - but that doesn't mean all Muslims are extremists. To the contrary, Islam has many good qualities that are in common with Christianity (though we need to correct your understanding of what the scriptures teach of Jesus).

I have a Muslim friend who is one of the coolest people I know. Ignore the haters on this site so that the rest of us can engage in meaningful discussions.

Islam has nothing in common with Christianity. If there is an exception to the rule, there is no rule.

Holding with the One True God of Israel is not being a hater, it's having faith in the One True God of Israel and turning away from false gods and false beliefs.
 

everready

New member
ALLAH – the Moon God

muslim.jpg


The Archaeology of the Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology.

We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

everready
 

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No, Muslims do not believe that. Well, they state they do and then deny the power of the One True God to accomplish it, leaving Yeshua as some mysterious bastardly liar without His Heavenly Father ("For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.") and Mary's testimony a falsehood.


“Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.” (Quran 3:42)

And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign: We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.” (Quran 23:50)

And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity…” (Quran 66:12)

“And mention in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to an eastern place. And she placed a screen to seclude herself from them. Then We sent to her Our angel (Gabriel), and he took the form of a well-created man before her. She said, “Indeed I seek refuge with the Most Merciful from you, if you do fear God.”[1] (The angel) said, ‘I am only the messenger of your Lord to give to you (the news of) a pure boy.’ She said, ‘How can I have a son, when no man has touched me (in marriage), and I am not a prostitute?’ He said, So your Lord said, ‘It is easy for Me. And We will make him a sign to people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter (already) decided.’” (Quran 19:16-21)
 
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