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I appreciate the answer here too. It seemed to me it has to have such a take. The idea not to 'fear' but rather "'I'm a Baptist! God loves us!' yeah, don't do that. It isn't a group thing these days." Close?

▲I laughed, wife groaned ▲ :D

Thank you so much for taking the time. (uhhhggg) I'm reading as I'm writing and should read a bit more of Romans 11 at this venture but how do you read/take the warning of verse 21? Thank you. -Lon

Could a few of you weigh in on this please: Romans 11: 11-31 Verse 17 specifically. I'm trying to grasp what the dispensationalist means. How were believers grafted in at the time, and how specifically, to / in Israel? I'm not quite there grasping the Mid Acts point and difference.

Depends where it is and I am in the garage! :p (good point, back to the drawing board, it was rather on the precept that I can know 'something' and not the other so likely too superficial to suffice :Z). Actually, if I misread prior, I agree with this. In context of thread (if important to...

How we conceive of cold is the absence of heat, by degrees... If you know one, the other will simply be a point on a number scale and point of interest 'where frostbite sets in.' In this case, cold and heat are relative to 'temperature' and hot OR cold will only be informative to the need...

For instance? Fixed it a bit atf. Will likely change our conversation quite a bit. Er when you say love isn't not love? Double-negative, demonstrably

It goes back to the right/wrong conversation: I said an opposite isn't needed to grasp the meaning of a thing. In this case, specifically, that love, nor will, nor ability, have a need for the contrast 'to do otherwise' for understanding. That was your point of entrance with an example of a...

Well one of us is missing the forest. Let's take forest for instance: What it is "a large number of tree over a large area." What a forest is not: A small number of trees over a small area (about as clear as mud until we know what large actually means, but it should suffice). From here...

Confusing. I think you are saying it is important to say an opposite so someone doesn't get confused that it involves the opposite, but simply saying 'love is patient' already means it isn't impatient. Nobody is saying love is not impatient (simply moving a negative into definition)...

Oops, sorry missed this and needed to edit. I missed, what was the question (still missing it)? Ah, I thought you said it was not part of love's definition. Do you see how you logically mean it 'must be' here? You guys are insisting that it is necessary, thus 'part' of the definition at...

On page. I believe you, but I've several open theists tell me love cannot exist without 'ability to do otherwise' (see even Derf's 'want to do otherwise" above) thus making it at least part of their definition and their understanding of love. I very much appreciate you agree with me on point...

Yes, true. Yet, you have to adequately define at least one, without the other. Wrong for instance: "not right." Right "no wrong." Anyone unfamiliar with English (i.e.ESL), is going to be rightly confused and cannot, by the defined limitation, ever grasp either meaning, just that one...

One, in definition, necessarily has to not have a contrast, however. It is a must, THEN you can use the definition to discuss the other by opposite, meaning, not before. I have to be able to have a concept of one without the other, to escape circular reasoning: When I was six, my grandpa was...

It was to be able to look it up. I'll have to check if your mind is loaned to my local library :X Yes, but for the need of clarity. O.o I don't see them as analogy? It'll take much longer conversation nevertheless. We disagree out of the gate and I believe upon a 'plain reading' of the...

Was it Summit Clock Experiment 2.0: Time is Absolute! ? Are you arguing with Enyart? An absolute and a 'doesn't exist' don't appear to be the same thing.

Can posts like this be updated to point to the original links? https://theologyonline.com/threads/debating-open-theism.52016/ and https://theologyonline.com/threads/my-views-on-open-theism.50205/

A disagreement among Open Theists: In Open Theism two and three (20 years ago O.o ), I found some Open Theists who believe 'God knows all things knowable' to logically include the whole of 'knowable' truth and happenings and yet, I've come across this verse in Genesis 18, unexpected grapes...

Thank you. Mulled this over last night rather than responding. Appreciate the insight. Freewill is generally hand in hand with theodicy in the sense that freewill is their answer to God justified. As Derf said, God, in freewill, isn't the Author of sin, but the Author of the switch...

🤔 ??? After the Fall, no problem with acquiescing, prior, huge issues. It is conjecture, we only know what and how it happened and the Serpent was instrumental, so much so that Moses describes him as 'more crafty than all the other beasts.' It has strong connotations against a counter...